hacking through the jungle to see the truth...

For those questions and discussions on the McDougall program that don’t seem to fit in any other forum.

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hacking through the jungle to see the truth...

Postby Lady_Potato_Head » Wed May 20, 2015 11:23 pm

Hi All
I'm new to following Dr. McDougall's work and I am reading Maximum Weight Loss now. I am refining my ways to fit this plan because I really want to give this an honest shot to heal my endometriosis, acne, digestive discomfort, improve my mood and sleep and drop the last 30lbs once and for all. I'm a 37 yo female and I play office all day so I am fairly sedentary but trying to get back into my daily walking and pilates.

Like many people, yes first time I did Atkins dropped the weight quickly and it came back fast. that was over 10 yrs ago.
I tried doing it again and didn't drop a pound at all and I wonder if that was my metabolism.. but then I decided to start back into my juicing (I've always had a Jack Lalanne!! :D) and going vegan/paleo about 2 yrs ago. yes ... I was following the raw vegan and paleo tenants steering clear from starch and grains like it was some plague. eating meat and still cheating with occasional ice cream and green juice and raw veggie dishes
Well the vegans I think are finally getting to me :) and I started doing the master cleanse last year clearing the mental muck to live simpler and more disciplined.

As the Doc does, he looks at the populations of people who consume the diet. I will admit I am STILL a bit confused.
I know Loren COrdain is a fat dude but I never followed him.. Yep Sally Fallon, all those people.. But... I was more into Mark Sisson,and he is 58 and looks like he is in good health and he is not fat.. I know a LOT of celebrities are claiming to do "Low-Carb" and they look great, and I know they have a lo of money and time to work out a lot as well..
But on the longevity standpoint of slowing down aging I am talking about the OLDER celebrities and looking at their diets.. Christie Brinkley is 60 (I think she is a Pescetarian), Brooke Shields, Jane Fonda etc.. and some of them get surgery and some don't.
Don't get me wrong I am not idolizing celebrities needing them to show me the way but I am just pondering this and wanted to bounce this off the board here for discussion.. and just trying to reprogram myself.

I'm not seeking to find an excuse to eating meat.. I am honestly not missing it as I know i'd need salt and sugar to get it to taste good..I'd rather have a potato or a portabella to sink my teeth into now.. The only great thing the Primal eating plan I did from Mark Sisson was ditching the cheese and dairy.. but still I was eating a lot of oils and meats and fake vegan cheeses along with it and chips with oils a few times a week and still having those problems above.

I guess I am confused when I see older women celebrities with great skin and fit bodies but still eat some meat.. I'm sure they are not eating it everday.. and they have their personal chef.. but I certainly don't see a lot of vibrant healthy "Peasants" even the ones who are thin.. maybe due to the oils I don't know!! a friend of mine also has been doing a lot of paleo and working out and she was proud of herself and let me feel her bicep when all honesty her tricep was FLABBY as I could feel her skin .. so I know ditching plants cannot be good for cellular and collagen integrity.

but when doing paleo deep down inside.. I MISSED my STARCHES!!

i'm open to thoughts and new perspectives. Im really trying to relearn.. I know meats are not optimal fuel anymore.. but just still confused when I see some people who eat meats and carbs and are athelets and seem to be in good shape and not overweight..

thanks
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Re: hacking through the jungle to see the truth...

Postby MINNIE » Thu May 21, 2015 6:32 am

guess I am confused when I see older women celebrities with great skin and fit bodies but still eat some meat.


I wish the whole "celebrity" culture would just go away -nothing does more harm to women's self esteem and health.

(In my opinion:).)

I wouldn't take the purported health and appearance of these women too seriously. If you haven't seen them in real life, you can't judge how they really look. Published photos can be manipulated to create a false image. Videos and TV appearances can be misleading, as "celebrities" have professional stylists and makeup artists to help them look good. The diet they self-report may not be what they really eat, and they may actually use extreme exercise and calorie restriction in private, while presenting a different story to the public. We will probably never know.

We'll never get close enough to see the scars from plastic surgery, liposuction, boob and butt enhancement, etc.

"Celebrities" may also get compensation for endorsing particular diet gurus, exercise programs, etc.

Bottom line, I would trust my/your own experience of this way of eating, and tune out the garbage from the media.

Personally, I adopted this way of eating for health reasons, and it has worked for me. That's all I know or need to know:). I haven't experienced other forms of dieting or weight loss programs , so I can't help with that. I'm sure you will get some good observations from others here on that issue.



Best wishes, and peace love & starch to all!!
Last edited by MINNIE on Thu May 21, 2015 7:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: hacking through the jungle to see the truth...

Postby arugula » Thu May 21, 2015 7:01 am

For celebrities, it's a lot of smoke and mirrors. They usually don't look all that great in candid, unretouched photos. Here is one example:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/05/ ... 379176.jpg

Plus, they work out, they have plastic surgeons on call, they have an army of stylists to prepare them for their appearances, etc. You can't go by them except for one or two things. They tend not to gain weight and they tend to exercise.

For people who look good beyond a certain age when they eat a lot of meat, I don't think there is such a thing. Mark Sisson is on steroids. So he goes to the gym. You can do that, too. But his skin! He is only 6 years older than me but he looks 20+ years older.

I totally believe in this way of eating. I have friends from 30 years back. They eat SAD. I eat a high f+v, low fat diet. You would not believe how much we have diverged. I am the same size, weight, and shape since high school, I never have aches or pains, I recover quickly from workouts. I wake up feeling good. Meanwhile, they have doubled in size, the husband has had two heart attacks, they are on an arsenal of medications, they are always in pain, always complaining, always going to the doctor for one reason or another. It's distressing to see their accelerated decay.

Choose life!
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Re: hacking through the jungle to see the truth...

Postby Ltldogg » Thu May 21, 2015 7:06 am

My advice, soak in all that is this WOE as outlined by Dr. McDougall and Jeff Novick. Follow their recommendations, which are back by science and proven to work over and over and over again. That is all you need. It is that simple and the recommendations are Free!

Time and consistency are key!

Enjoy,
Scott
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Re: hacking through the jungle to see the truth...

Postby Jeepsterhound » Thu May 21, 2015 7:14 am

The important thing is how YOU look and feel. It sounds like you are off to a good start; don't worry about those other people. See how you look and feel after a few months of this way of eating.
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Re: hacking through the jungle to see the truth...

Postby patty » Thu May 21, 2015 7:19 am

I think our attraction to stars is because we are all made of stardust. We reside in the best labs there are. The body is our best ally. It doesn't lie. I love this graphic from Dr. Topol's "The Patient Will See You Now", where it shows through the information the patient is able to access through sites like this, creates a paradigm shift, of not only knowledge being power, but self-knowlege being Self-Empowerment. The patient has the power, the doctors, medical industry are the sellers.

Image

Every house hold should have a copy of "Dr. McDougall's Digestive Tune-Up", because everything goes back to digestion. The greatest component between the feedback loop between Big Food and Big Phrama is you. Starch creates satiety where you are able to respond vs. react (digest) to living life on life's terms, because today we know the world is inside of us. And it is to be the change we want to see.

This is from "Dr. McDougall's Digestive Tune-Up":

High Animal Protein Means High Acid

The primary job of stomach acid is to digest protein from your meals. So naturally, the more high-protein foods you eat, like meat, poultry, shellfish, fish, and cheese, the more acid your stomach produces and secretes. Gram for gram, animal protein produces more acid than an equivalent amount of plant protein. As a comparison, one study showed 30-40 percent less stomach acid production with soy protein than with beef protein. According to another large study, peptic ulcers occur more often with milk, meat, and bread consumption, as well as higher fat intake (including olive oil and vegetable fats). Consumption of vegetables, on the other hand, was associated with lower incidence of ulcers.

John A. McDougall. Dr. McDougall's Digestive Tune-Up (Kindle Locations 425-427). Kindle Edition.


Aloha, patty
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Re: hacking through the jungle to see the truth...

Postby colonyofcells » Thu May 21, 2015 10:39 am

I try to follow the healthy lifestyles of traditional peoples rather than individuals.
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Re: hacking through the jungle to see the truth...

Postby dailycarbs » Thu May 21, 2015 11:39 am

colonyofcells wrote:I try to follow the healthy lifestyles of traditional peoples rather than individuals.


:thumbsup:
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Re: hacking through the jungle to see the truth...

Postby Gail » Sat May 23, 2015 12:16 am

Jane Fonda was eating oatmeal with blueberries, in a more recent movies, 'Georgia Rules'.

Jane may have had enhancement, but if she ate rubbish it would show.

Peace, Gail
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Re: hacking through the jungle to see the truth...

Postby f1jim » Sat May 23, 2015 11:01 am

The role of movie and TV stars, politicians, and others in the public eye and their dietary choices is always a big deal on these pages. It's always a big deal in supermarket check out aisles. There is something about public persona that gives them credibility with many people. We tend to think we know them because they come into our living rooms regularly. Sure, I know Rachel Ray or Bill Clinton just like their family does!
They are subject to the same social pressures we are. When a new diet is racing through the acting community there is tremendous pressure to adopt it. And excess weight might as well be cancer to that crowd. Stop and think back over the last 30 years (if you are that old) about how many diets have been embraced by celebrities. Can you remember Fen Fen and using colonic irrigation as weight loss treatments? If anything, given the rampant drug and alcohol abuse in that community their advice should probably be the LAST advice followed. Maybe politicians would be better?
Not only are celebrities given these role model positions we have to turn our doctors into celebrities now. We can't just have a guy in a white coat telling us what to eat we have to have Dr. Oz in all his tv charm telling us what's best to eat.
It's a bizarro world where reality and common sense have gotten lost.
I'd give away half my TV channels for one with just Jeff Novick. Personality doesn't have to be absent from learning but it can't replace learning.
The older I get the less time for celebrities and other high profile people I have in my life.
f1jim
While adopting this diet and lifestyle program I have reversed my heart disease, high cholesterol, hypertension, and lost 54 lbs. You can follow my story at https://www.drmcdougall.com/james-brown/
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Re: hacking through the jungle to see the truth...

Postby patty » Sat May 23, 2015 11:38 am

We are all fascinated with stories of unrequited love/hunger.. It is in our music our films. Story telling is a art passed down from generations upon generations. It is to look beyond where story is pointing. Creation and evolution are a Non-Duel One.

In the Daily Mail they have a article titled, "Why Mrs Clooney is disappearing before our eyes: Amal and how scary-skinny is the new hallmark of success."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/artic ... ccess.html

A decade later and she's as thin as a broomstick. She looks as though she's taken the straightening tongs not just to her hair but to her entire body.

What is behind this determination to be thin? Having conquered the legal world, does Amal want to the first among women as well, an alpha female always in control?

Or has becoming the bride of a sought-after bachelor made her insecure? Perhaps being model-thin is her way of saying: 'He's mine. I'm good enough for him. Hands off.'

While most modern women will openly scoff at such a notion, an honest conversation with our inner selves may lead us to the uncomfortable conclusion that it is actually women who put other women under pressure to be thin.

How often have we secretly (or meanly with a girlfriend) denigrated a woman's success by thinking we are somehow superior because we're slimmer?

Let's not forget the way Sarah Ferguson and Princess Diana were pitched against each other, when they married into the Royal Family.

The world sneered at the Duchess of Pork while gazing adoringly up at Diana, who by the time she wed Charles in 1981 had become scary-skinny.

But perhaps Diana holds the key to Amal's startling weight loss.

Maybe it's not power she's seeking, but instead is suffering from a sense of powerlessness.

It can't be easy for any woman who goes from an unknown to being thrown into the spotlight by marrying one of the most famous men on earth.


Aloha, patty
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Re: hacking through the jungle to see the truth...

Postby Risto » Sat May 23, 2015 2:03 pm

arugula wrote:They usually don't look all that great in candid, unretouched photos. Here is one example:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/05/ ... 379176.jpg


Even just lighting has a huge effect. That looks like direct sunlight from a blue sky, which is very harsh and casts sharp shadows, in this case of every wrinkle on Jennifer Lopez's face. Even without retouching, you could probably have photographed her a minute later in soft studio light, smiling at the camera, and she'd have looked just as advertised.

The tabloids and gossip websites use this when they want to make someone look bad in some contrived before-and-after comparison: take a bad, harsh-light, no-makeup paparazzi shot, turn up the contrast in Photoshop to show off every wrinkle and blemish, and put that next to a nice studio photo from ten years earlier. Presto, anyone will look like a wreck.
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Re: hacking through the jungle to see the truth...

Postby dteresa » Sat May 23, 2015 8:36 pm

The fact is that there are some people who are long lived or look great for their age or who are thin and apparently healthy and eat the standard american diet. And some who are very careful about what they eat might die at a younger age or get cancers or have other health problems. Life doesn't come with guarantees and neither does any particular woe. One person on this group wrote that she had been Mcdougalling for ten years and was diagnosed with colon cancer.

The best we can do (and what I have done after living with diabetes and having had an MI) is to choose a woe that reliable studies have shown to improve health and, depending on your health and other circumstances in your life, stick to it. I am one of those people whom family call fanatic because i do not deviate from an all plant no fat woe. I do not expect to live forever. I do not know what the future will bring. But this is what I have decided is the best for me.

I was one hundred fifty pounds heavier than I am now and 49 years old when I was diagnosed with diabetes, made some changes but not enough, and had an MI at 68. Some who look great at fifty might just discover problems when they are sixty or seventy and be debilitated by those health problems.

I think imitating someone we do not know very well who appears to be healthy and attractive is not the smartest way to choose a woe. Maybe they won the genetic lottery or maybe they exercise a great deal or maybe they have had good healthy eating habits from childhood. So far this woe seems the most healthful and so I have to choose it until some really superb and reproducible evidence indicates another woe is better.

didi
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Re: hacking through the jungle to see the truth...

Postby dteresa » Sun May 24, 2015 8:00 am

Just re read the op and saw the comments about healthy peasants. I come from a family of thin healthy peasants who came here from europe and ate their traditional diet which consisted of very little meat and what meat there was included mostly meat on the bone like the necks and feet of chickens etc. Not a whole lot. Their skin, I remember, was rough and sun darkened from being outdoors in their gardens and on their jobs. No facials, no fancy skin creams, no make up, no beauty parlor. No personal chefs, no trainers. And no photoshopping of the photos we have of them. I personally would love to have all those things in addition to this woe. And my life could also use a soothing sound track to accompany me wherever I go.

didi
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Re: hacking through the jungle to see the truth...

Postby Lady_Potato_Head » Mon May 25, 2015 7:20 pm

thanks Ya'll - much appreciated for the varying perspectives in your responses.
Yes I don't even watch TV much less buy celebrity fashion mags, but i was pondering who were OLDER celebrity types i could think of and what their diets were.

all makes sense. Happy Memorial Day :)
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