Totally Off Topic - anyone here ever experience this?

[eXtremE]

I went against my better judgement and loaned this girl over $4000. I made her sign a promissory note. Now, it seems she is coming up with one excuse after another for not paying me back. She keeps telling me she will honor our agreement but IDK. I knew I should not have done it but felt really sad for her and she was in a terrible financial bind. This is starting to ruin the friendship we once had and I plan on taking her to small claims court if she does not start to make payments soon, altho I know there is no guarantee I will will get my money back. I have learned my lesson. Never loan money to family or friends. It is ok to give it if you don't expect repayment.

She has a job and I know who her employer is. People should just do the right thing when someone is good to you but you can easily get screwed when it comes to money. I am not even charging her any interest. She finds a way to make her car payments each month. She is driving around in a nice car she really can't afford. She even once got angry at me when I told her she should have purchased a smaller, more economical car but she knows if she does not make that car payment, the finance company is not going to have any sympathy. They are simply going to repossess her car.

Also, her health is bad. She has a bad family history of heart disease. She has mild CAD herself and she is only 50 and I have seen her take nitro.

Her daughter is 30, really overweight, and just underwent coronary bypass surgery. I told her how horrible her diet was and that she could save money and improve her health if she would stop smoking and start eating a healthy PB diet but she became angry at me again. Now, I do not care. I would simply like to try and get all my money back or some of it back before she self destructs. I feel like such a fool bc I was just trying to help someone in need, and now it seems like I am getting screwed in the end.

[patty]

Health is Wealth. The best revenge is to be happy and healthy. First try and go through small claims court, while praying (shooting her with love:) for what you desire, and it will come back to you ten fold. Our mind likes problems:) Our best thinking tells us we are powerless. Justified anger is just as harmful as unjustified. It is a opportunity to put principles before personalities, to know the difference between cash register honesty before emotional. You don't want what she has. Loss works for you because it makes you go abstract, where you are not a subject or abstact. It is Ho'oponopono I am sorry Please forgive me Thank you I love You!

Aloha, patty

[Dougalling]

Hi

You can go to court or you can sell your promisory note to a collections agency.
Sorry you had to learn this lesson the hard way.

[dteresa]

This person has no intention of repaying you. She could have been giving you even small sums weekly in good faith but she is not. Small claims courts, unfortunately, have no way of seeing that you get the money if the person does not wish to pay or if they don't have money to repay. You might not even be able, in your state, to garnish wages. You can file a lien against property if she has anything but it is expensive to you and probably requires paying a lawyer. Do you think she doesn't know these things?

I never heard of selling the note to a collections agency and wonder what kind of loss you will take in this case and if her circumstances make it worthwhile for such an agency to purchase the note.

I am so sorry that a good deed turned out this way. You have learned a lesson that some of us have already learned.

didi

[MINNIE]

Yes, this happened to me once. It was forty years ago, and I learned to never do that again. It turned out that my "friend" had an expensive drug habit that she had no intention of changing. Generally I think that anyone who hits up a friend or relative for a large sum of money is doing it because they assume that they won't be forced to pay it back. Then they can just keep doing whatever it was (gambling, drugs, irresponsible spending) that got them into debt in the first place. So it's best not to be an enabler.

In my state, small claims court is a pretty good resource. I've used it to collect a business debt, and it was pretty painless (at least for me) and it worked.

It's worth a try, and they probably have an online guide to the process that won't cost you anything to consult.

You may not ever get the money back, or not all of it, but don't feel bad about trying. She obviously doesn't feel bad about scamming you.

[flowerblue]

Judge Judy.

[eXtremE]

Thanks everyone.

@ flowerblue, I wish we had a Judge Judy where I live. I have thought about a Judge Judy type prior to your posting.

@ didi, thanks and you are right. She could have been paying me tiny sums. I even told her I don't feel good about doing this but she was crying and told me she would pay me back no matter what and that I had absolutely nothing to worry about. I also told her I do not want to have to ask you for my own money back. You need to tell me if you can't pay me for whatever reason, but now she has like amnesia and I have to ask her. It amazes me but she actually got a little angry when I asked her if she was gonna be able to pay me this month. If anyone should be angry, it should be me. I loaned her my money, not the other way around.

@ Minnie, yes I feel like I have been scammed. Whether I get anything back or not, I will file the claim in small claims court like you suggested and not just let her off the hook by doing nothing. That is probably what she wants me to do. Some ppl will say anything to try and get what they want. I am sorry it happened to you forty years ago.

@ Dougalling, thanks for your suggestion.
@Patty, I wish I could be as loving and peaceful as you seem to be. Generally, I am a really kind, compassionate person but I think this girl saw that and just took advantage of me. Now, I don't even wanna be friends or talk to this person anymore b/c she lied to me. She told me at the end of each month, I will pay you back $150.00. Like didi said even if she did not have the $150.00, at least make some kind of an effort to pay me something or tell why you can't pay this month but she is not even calling me and telling me like we agreed. I am having to contact her.

Thanks again everyone! I also think if she does not quit smoking and change her diet quickly, she will not make it to age 60. The cardiologist has already told her she has angina and needs to change her lifestyle. I mean her own daughter just had bypass surgery and some of the money I loaned her was used to go visit her daughter after the operation. I think they have even suggested the operation to her but she will not let them do it. She has just been taking the nitro whenever she has angina. She is still eating lots of meat and dairy and smokes a couple packs of cigarettes a day and she constantly complains about how she has no energy and how bad she feels. I told her she could probably start to feel better if she would change the way she eats and stop smoking but she won't listen. That was another reason I was fearful of loaning her the money. I thought to myself what if she drops dead of a heart attack soon after I give her this money...Ugh!

[Jack Monzon]

Ignoring your debts is not permitted on this program.

[eXtremE]

LOL, thanks Jack!

[dailycarbs]

Without actually doing the research, I'd guess that a collection agency would only give you 10% of the note (if they even bothered with it all). Usually they're interested in buying a "book" of debts on the cheap because they realize they're not going to collect most. I read a very long article on these agencies a while back and the sleazy nature of the biz was quite eye-opening.

Small claims court is a good option. You'd probably win. She might not even defend herself. Problem is, how to collect? It may end up being more aggravation than it's worth and no guarantee of results. Personally, I might try the small claims route for the feeling of empowerment and just as a cathartic exercise. Sometimes, getting some official document causes people to start making payments. The thing is, people who are irresponsible with money are generally irresponsible in all manners of things. This makes them unreliable and so you never know exactly what you can count on them to do in any given circumstance.

I have many friends I would never lend a dime to, even if they faced homelessness. If they were in real trouble, I'd have to decide whether to gift them the money or not but they've led such horrible lives in terms of their finances that thinking they'd repay a debt is pure fantasy. If I added up all the cars they've bought, the trips they've taken, and the useless garbage that has come and gone from their homes, and piled up the cash equivalent, they'd be wealthy by now. I'm not throwing my hard-earned money into that bottomless pit.

[nayasmom]

Nolo Press has a wonderful book for navigating small claims court, but I think it's only accurate in CA... can't promise one way or t'other. However, you can find information online that will help you start the process, and basically it's ALL about the paper trail.
You need to write a letter stating the facts: "on this date I loaned you $X and you signed a promissory note of intent to repay the debt. I chose not to charge interest. It has been X amount of time and you have made no move to begin repaying me. You have ten (10) business days to form a repayment plan, along with your first installment, or I will consider you in arrears and sue you in small claims court. Further, if the judgement is found in my favor, I will ask the court to also make you financially responsible for any and all court costs as allowed by law." Something like that. Then you must mail it certified return receipt, which is your proof of this communication going through. Then you need to act if the ten business days pass with no action on her part. One thing I suggest is that you log, to the best of your ability, all of the conversatons where she essentially blew you off. That will be important for the judge to go over in deciding about deadbeatism.

You can no longer allow this "friendship" to influence what you do now. A true friend will not crap on you when you've bailed him/her out of a bind. There's also that universal truth: what you do for another doesn't bind that person to you but the opposite. When you invest your time, energy, money, whatever in another person, you are bound to that person and have two choices, to either forever continue investing time, energy, and money, or to cut your losses and move forward. It's painful either way, there's no denying that. But surgery to save your life is also painful, just as opting not to have life-saving surgery is painful.
It helps to separate the friendship from the business transaction, which is what the loan is.

Good luck!
Robyn

[roundcoconut]

Totally thinking aloud here, but:

Someone who isn't very good with money simply isn't so good with it yet. So, if you were to say to a beginning piano student, "OK, I'll record the concerto for you now, but I'd like you to send you recordings each month showing me how you're improving, and four years from now, you're going to send me the final accomplished recording of the concerto." Well, someone who doesn't know how to practice the piano is going to have no recording to send you in a month, not even their rendition of chopsticks. Because they're scared of the piano and they don't know what to do.

So -- I feel bad for people who are scared of money and don't know what to do -- this woman doesn't look around resourcefully and say, "What can I sell?", "Where can I cut back?", "Where can I get a job for some extra cash?" -- she is just clueless. I am good with money, and was raised by people who are good with money. I'm thankful for that!

All I can think of -- and take it in the spirit of utter brainstorming, which is how it was in tended -- is to ask the universe (or god, or whatever) to send $4,000 into your life, back into your bank account, within the next six months. Maybe it doesn't come through her, but maybe it comes through someplace else.

And then be open to all avenues you can think of. Are you sitting on untouched resources that you would've never thought of converting into money? Is she sitting on untouched resources that she would let you have? Does she have skills that she would let you tap into (would she sew you curtains or help redesign your living room)? Do you have a magical tax refund or inheritance coming to you? Small claims court might not be an avenue for the money to flow in, but it might be a necessary step to open up the flow of energy and resources and kindness. She really has to repay your kindness, and stop thinking about "money", which probably confuses her.

Not sure if that sparks anything! But that's how I'm thinking of it at the moment. I do admire your spirit of generosity, and I practice financial generosity (giving, overtipping, donating) all the time -- it has always brought good things into my life, so hopefully yours will too!

[Halcyon8]

1. Whenever I give anyone money - I don't loan. I give, without expectation that is should ever be paid back. I tell them up front that if they are moved by Life to pay me back, that will be a great blessing. If I am not moved by Life to make the gift, or cannot afford it, I don't offer it. This keeps me clean and free in my heart and if it comes back....it's like Christmas.

2. I don't feel sorry for anyone any longer. Empathy, yes because I've had to come through so much myself in my own life. Empathy and patience, yes. But sympathy....no. If I feel sorry for someone, I'm essentially communicating to their heart and mind that I think they are weak and helpless. I don't want to project those lies onto others. I have stopped trying to rescue people from their own creations. That way, I don't take on their "karma" if you will. I don't rip them off of an opportunity to take responsibility for their own lives, either. If I can come through my "stuff" - I know they can, and must.

And when I am truly moved by my deepest inner sensing to make a gift - it is just that - a gift. It keeps me free.

With love,

BIscuit Grinch

[roundcoconut]

BiscuitGrinch, I love what you wrote.

Yes yes yes to the part about playing into someone's storyline of helplessness. I see it here too, when people talk about food and their health and their food environment -- a tired, useless storyline that isn't going anywhere!

Your username should be BiscuitAngel or LovelyBiscuit or something!

[Halcyon8]

That's really kind, roundcoconut....thank you