Dr. Dean Ornish at World Economic Forum

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Dr. Dean Ornish at World Economic Forum

Postby Birdy » Sun Jan 25, 2015 12:39 pm

I received this link in my email http://www.weforum.org/ from the McDougall website. It's a 30 minute video interview with Dr. Ornish recorded at the World Economic Forum a couple of days ago and is an excellent interview. He sums up very clearly why a whole foods plant based diet has been shown without a doubt to be best for people's health and emphasizes diet as one part of a healthy lifestyle. Even though I've heard him speak before and have read two of his books, I still found this interview informative. There are many other talks that also look interesting but I've only viewed the one so far.

Thank you Dr. McDougall for the link!
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Re: Dr. Dean Ornish at World Economic Forum

Postby dteresa » Sun Jan 25, 2015 3:28 pm

All I got was a forum. Did not get the interview when I clicked the link.

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Re: Dr. Dean Ornish at World Economic Forum

Postby wade4veg » Sun Jan 25, 2015 3:32 pm

You have to do a search for the Ornish interview on that site.

However the main discussion that first shows up on that site was most interesting.
6 top financial leaders discussing the current world economy. The very most important people.
Interesting to see how they talk, instead of only getting sound bites.

I like the look from the head of the Bank of England to the Brazil finance minister on his left (at 47:05) , after the head of the Bank of Japan head talks about China's growth rate in 2015 projected at 7.5%.
Just a quick glance from him, indicating to me, that neither he or others with full knowledge, believe that China's actual growth rate will be anywhere near that. That is the kind of stuff you don't get in official sound bites and news releases.
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Re: Dr. Dean Ornish at World Economic Forum

Postby VeggieSue » Sun Jan 25, 2015 3:52 pm

Just use the search box for "Ornish" and 2 different talks come up, the economic one mentioned, which is a one-on-one interview, and Let Food Be Thy Medicine panel discussion.
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Re: Dr. Dean Ornish at World Economic Forum

Postby Risto » Sun Jan 25, 2015 5:57 pm

This is off-topic, but I found it funny in a laugh-or-cry sort way way. Apparently the bigwigs traveled to the Economic Forum in Davos on 1700 private jet flights to discuss, among other things, carbon dioxide emissions and climate change. Apparently many of them also rode a helicopter from their landed private jet in Zürich to Davos. I'd guess what they ate there wasn't exactly beans and rice, either.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/sho ... ate-change
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Re: Dr. Dean Ornish at World Economic Forum

Postby dteresa » Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:21 pm

Thanks. I found both videos. In the panel discussion I thought Ornish defended very well the wfpb low fat woe. Interesting that one guy defended vitamins. And that one man attributed better health to surgeries and pills.

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Re: Dr. Dean Ornish at World Economic Forum

Postby Skip » Mon Jan 26, 2015 8:52 am

bbq wrote:Let Food Be Thy Medicinehttp://wef.ch/60669


At the 43:10 mark, a questioner asks how to make this confusing topic simple and easy to understand for the public. The ensuing interchange between Dean Ornish and David Agus (an oncologist) does the opposite of this.

Dean Ornish begins to explain why it is a very simple thing for the public to understand because a WFPB diet can prevent/reverse heart disease, diabetes, and prostate cancer. In the middle of his explanation (at the 46:35 mark), David Agus can't help himself and must interrupt Ornish by denying the science behind the idea that a WFPB diet can prevent/reverse prostate cancer. Ornish does a good job of trying to explain studies that show that prostate cancer can be prevented/reversed.

Ironically, in trying to answer the original question, the oncologists hijacks the conversation and just adds more confusion to the public so that the moderator (at the 47:55 mark) stops the debate by stating that differences in science can be hashed out over a long period of time which is true, however, the answer the average public gets is that there is no simple way to understand nutrition.

To me, this is just another example of how a simple solution of eating a WFPB diet with exercise for good health is so confusing to the public.
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Re: Dr. Dean Ornish at World Economic Forum

Postby bbq » Mon Jan 26, 2015 9:50 am

That's the way doctors were groomed in medical schools, don't do anything unrelated to the curriculum. Maybe not even all that different from something like this:

Image

http://www.slideshare.net/dabambic/philip-zimbardo-the-lucifer-effect

It's such a challenge for those typical doctors to think about other options when they're only given a relatively small set of tools in the first place. They're confined to practice defensive medicine so that nobody would get caught as a result of not following the protocol.

On the other hand, it required tremendous courage for someone like Ornish to create a paradigm shift. The difference would be more or less like comparing a fixed mindset versus a growth mindset:

http://mindsetonline.com/whatisit/about/

It's more likely to be a systemic issue for most doctors to behave in a particular way. To break away from the system, it all began on a dispositional level. It's so wonderful that Ornish could accomplish systemic changes so that would lead to dispositional benefits down the road.
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Re: Dr. Dean Ornish at World Economic Forum

Postby Sutra » Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:03 am

Dr Agus' interruption reminded me of a debate between Dean Ornish and Gary Taubes. Ornish would cite one of his studies and Taubes would smirk and claim that the study was too small. Of course the same size study was fine if it proved Taubes ' point. At least Dr Agus didn't do that, but in his defense, I suspect the results of the Ornish study on prostate cancer weren't definitive enough for Agus to advise his patients to reject drugs and radiation, unlike with physicians treating heart disease and diabetes.
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Re: Dr. Dean Ornish at World Economic Forum

Postby wade4veg » Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:43 pm

Sutra wrote:At least Dr Agus didn't do that, but in his defense, I suspect the results of the Ornish study on prostate cancer weren't definitive enough for Agus to advise his patients to reject drugs and radiation, unlike with physicians treating heart disease and diabetes.


I don't believe there are many doctors, including Ornish, who believe that diet is a full substitute for surgery or radiation in a individual who has prostate cancer. Ornish indicates that diet can slow the progression of non-aggressive forms of the disease, but not eliminate it... and certainly not be a substitute for full treatment in the more aggressive forms.
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Re: Dr. Dean Ornish at World Economic Forum

Postby Skip » Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:48 am

wade4veg wrote:I don't believe there are many doctors, including Ornish, who believe that diet is a full substitute for surgery or radiation in a individual who has prostate cancer. Ornish indicates that diet can slow the progression of non-aggressive forms of the disease, but not eliminate it... and certainly not be a substitute for full treatment in the more aggressive forms.


When falling from an airplane with a parachute, you have a certain amount of time to open that chute to prevent your death or serious injury. At some point, you are beyond hope. Opening the chute in time is analogous to adopting a WFPB diet to prevent prostate cancer as a large majority of men die with prostrate cancer, but not from prostrate cancer.

Moreover, this controversy arose when Ornish was asked what type of diet the public should consume to prevent these diseases. When Agus disagreed with Ornish about prostrate cancer, it just added to the confusion of which diet is ideal for health. There should not be a controversy about this question, however, there is....
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Re: Dr. Dean Ornish at World Economic Forum

Postby Sutra » Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:35 pm

I'd like to relate this discussion of the prostate cancer issue back to Dr Ornish's original research. Ornish made a comment about standard treatments for prostate cancer only helping a few patients but causing serious side effects such as incontinence in many patients. But it can be easier for an oncologist to continue to prescribe these 'accepted' treatments, because that's 'by the book' medicine. The same could be true of heart disease, but by doing studies many years ago that were accepted into peer reviewed journals Ornish made it easier and safer for cardiologists to recommend alternatives to surgery.

So if most men die with some evidence of prostate cancer in their bodies Dr Agus could have staked out the middle ground and agreed that the Ornish program was something to consider recommending early on in men's lives as prevention without rejecting use of his other tools for men further along in the disease process.
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