Insomnia

For those questions and discussions on the McDougall program that don’t seem to fit in any other forum.

Moderators: JeffN, f1jim, John McDougall, carolve, Heather McDougall

Re: Insomnia

Postby eXtremE » Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:30 pm

There are also caffeine free herbal teas.

http://www.celestialseasonings.com/prod ... /chamomile
On 7/8/2013, I decided to change my diet to a "mostly" WFPB diet. I have always been somewhat lean and muscular due to being a lifelong exerciser. Change in diet due to feeling crummy all the time despite a healthy outward appearance. Image
User avatar
eXtremE
 
Posts: 3525
Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:05 am

Re: Insomnia

Postby patty » Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:51 pm

The effects of caffeine isn't too hard to figure out. Abstain from it for awhile and when reintroduced note the changes. If the changes are intolerable, it won't be difficult to give it up. We reside in the best labs there are.

Aloha, patty
patty
 
Posts: 6977
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:46 am

Re: Insomnia

Postby roundcoconut » Sat Jan 24, 2015 4:21 pm

Oh, but dear lord, only give up the tea as a last resort!

Honestly, I am the most callous person when it comes to telling people to give up their processed foods, give up their SOS addictions, give up their calorie dense foods. I have no problem telling people that have to be a little hard-ass with themselves sometimes if they want positive outcomes.

And yet, we talk about a cup of tea and I am suddenly this bleeding heart of compassion!
User avatar
roundcoconut
 
Posts: 2530
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2014 11:55 pm

Re: Insomnia

Postby Comma » Sat Jan 24, 2015 4:36 pm

Yes. I too went to the doctor, but didn't take the prescription stuff she gave me.
I beat it (and it was bad), which is huge for me.

This helps me:
Eating lots.
Ear stoppers. I also wore them through the day at first, it seemed to help a lot to tamper stress down which helped me sleep somehow. Now I only use them nights sometimes.
Zero light at night. Black out curtains.
Lemon balm extract (this was HUGE in the beginning)


Melatonin seemed to give me nightmares.
Comma
 
Posts: 98
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2014 4:18 pm

Re: Insomnia

Postby roundcoconut » Sat Jan 24, 2015 4:53 pm

If you *do* consider giving up tea on a test basis, Bengal Spice tea (by celestial seasonings) is nice, and is sold at most normal grocery stores. It smells and tastes like Big Red gum.

Ginger tea is nice too, although the term tea is very much a misnomer. All I really mean is hot water in which slices of raw ginger have steeped. Supposedly some magical anti-inflammatory properties here, too!

Oh, and there's also the idea of steeping your tea less but still getting enough flavor for your liking. I remember waiting on a woman in a restaurant who just didn't steep the tea a whole lot anymore. Her daughter commented, "Oh, she practically just waves it over the water" instead of steeping it. When I make ginger tea, I sometimes dunk a black tea bag in the water a few times, just to impart a little color and flavor.

Just some more thoughts for you!
User avatar
roundcoconut
 
Posts: 2530
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2014 11:55 pm

Re: Insomnia

Postby nayasmom » Sat Jan 24, 2015 5:38 pm

BlueHeron wrote:
LynnCS wrote:"People like to hear good news about their bad habits." Dr. John McDougall


I don't see how this is pertinent, and it seems kind of uncalled for. I wouldn't call my response looking for good news about bad habits. I'd call it pointing out a lack of evidence. I drink tea every day. I don't have insomnia every night.


"The truth is rarely pure and never simple." Oscar Wilde


This part of the thread illustrates rather clearly the uphill battle of getting the McDougall diet accepted by the masses.
I had switched from regular to decaf tea, and I too had a cuppa every day but not insomnia every night. I don't think it matters how often one has insomnia in order to find a correlation with caffeine consumption, even the amount in decaffeinated drinks. I had insomnia often enough that I was interested in finding the cause as well as the cure. Once I cut out all caffeine whatsoever (even decaf, which still contains a small amount), the quality of my sleep improved overall quite a bit.
In a way, it IS about wanting to hear good news about our bad habits. If you're unwilling to cut out your caffeinated products temporarily to see if you do sleep better more nights than not, that's fine, it's your choice. But... what if it's the caffeine that causes your insomnia? Wouldn't you like to know that?
Someone mentioned Celestial Seasonings' Bengal Spice tea as a nice big tea with no caffeine. I have been using their Roastaroma as a coffee substitute, and I enjoy their Mint Magic at work for a breaktime treat. I also use Teechino and Pero as coffee subs. I am not a fan of sweet drinks, including fruity teas and such, so I don't get all excited over herbal teas which tend to be sweet unless they're medicinal.

As an aside, I have read that a warm shower makes you drowsy and prepares you to sleep while a very hot shower actually invigorates and energizes. Just throwing that out there.
Robyn
Great spirits have always met with violent opposition from mediocre minds. Albert Einstein


Image
[/url]
nayasmom
 
Posts: 1197
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:10 pm

Re: Insomnia

Postby Timaca » Sat Jan 24, 2015 6:44 pm

For me, histamine rich foods make me more agitated, give me restless leg syndrome (RLS) and insomnia. (They also give me headaches, joint pain and other issues, but let's stick to insomnia because that is the topic at hand :wink: )

When you think about it, antihistamines make people tired, so it makes sense that if your body isn't metabolizing histamine for one reason or another you can be more wakeful. At night. When you want to be asleep.

Some high histamine foods include: spinach, tomatoes, eggplant, fermented foods, soy sauce, soy, red beans and many fruits. For lists and more info see the resources page on my blog. Scroll down and you'll see "Histamine Intolerance Information."

Perhaps you can try cutting out the foods high in histamine for a week or two and see how you feel. If you are sleeping better, that could be part of your problem (maybe all of it). Then try adding foods back in. Each person has their individual tolerance level. Histamine is cumulative. So you may eat some tomato and feel fine. Then you try some avocado and tomato and do fine. But then you add in some vinegar (also high in histamine) and then you have symptoms. So you blame it on the vinegar, but it could be the culmination of all the foods. Even over days. So keep a food record. Good luck!

Best,
Timaca
 
Posts: 1004
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:37 am

Re: Insomnia

Postby MikeInFL » Sat Jan 24, 2015 10:22 pm

Be cautious with melatonin supplementation. It's does not promote sleep drive! It is not meant to treat insomnia! It's meant to treat Circadian Rhythm Disorders (you sleep enough but at the wrong time). It can also treat Shift Work Sleep Disorders and early morning awakenings. Thus melatonin treats sleep timing disorders.

Another caution- the correct dose to treat sleep time disorder is only 0.3 - 1.0 mg. But commercial melatonin products often contain 3-10 times this amount, which can cause side effects, including vivid dreams and nightmares!

Also melatonin in supplements is not the same as found in food, like tart cherries, so it may not be as effective.

Thus, to use melatonin supplements properly, 1. only use it to shift your sleep time, not to treat insomnia. If you sleep soundly from 4am to noon, then it's appropriate. 2. only use does 0.3 - 1.0 mg. 3. try tart cherry juice first. 4. take several hours before you want to sleep.

I had severe insomnia, to the point I wasn't even sleeping for a while. Tried supplements of all kind- nothing worked. What did work was retraining myself to sleep. I turned off all devices and turned the lights down low, not dark, to create a 'quiet time' in the living room. Soft music or radio low volume is ok. My goal was not to try to sleep, but instead create a 'quiet' time, low lights, low music, etc. But not try and sleep. Sleep must come by itself, it can't be forced. Soon I was finding myself falling alseep without trying, during my quiet time. Next, you must learn to know when a 'sleep wave' comes to you at night, and it not to ignore it. I used to ignore it, and if you do, it goes away and you are awake again. The sleep wave comes whenever it wants, and usually before midnight. The sleep wave is simply a feeling you are now tired, and eyes get heavy. THAT'S IT! Don't ignore it! Time for quiet time, or even straight to bed.
MikeInFL
 
Posts: 274
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:19 pm

Re: Insomnia

Postby veg tom » Sun Jan 25, 2015 4:26 am

Just my 2 cents get a good bed. When I first got my tempedic [spelled wrong] it felt I was tko like someone drugged me slept like a rock big difference.
A is A
veg tom
 
Posts: 402
Joined: Thu Nov 28, 2013 3:23 pm
Location: st clair shores mi

Re: Insomnia

Postby eXtremE » Sun Jan 25, 2015 6:57 am

Aerobic Exercise right bf bed sometimes helps me as long as it is not too vigorous. I think insomnia is more psychological than a physical cause......I know for me it is bc I suffer with anxiety and panic attacks. I know ppl who consume huge amounts of caffeine and can still sleep like a rock. I don't do caffeine period and have a really hard time getting to sleep and staying asleep.

Melatonin seemed to give me nightmares.


Yeah, it gives me nightmares also.
On 7/8/2013, I decided to change my diet to a "mostly" WFPB diet. I have always been somewhat lean and muscular due to being a lifelong exerciser. Change in diet due to feeling crummy all the time despite a healthy outward appearance. Image
User avatar
eXtremE
 
Posts: 3525
Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:05 am

Re: Insomnia

Postby BlueHeron » Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:10 am

deleted
Last edited by BlueHeron on Fri Feb 20, 2015 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
BlueHeron
 
Posts: 1141
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:12 pm

Re: Insomnia

Postby roundcoconut » Sun Jan 25, 2015 11:19 am

I love the thought of you being the new poster child for the reckless endangerment of your health and well-being. :)

A simple tea bag in your hand and now you are quite the bad-ass!
User avatar
roundcoconut
 
Posts: 2530
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2014 11:55 pm

Re: Insomnia

Postby BlueHeron » Sun Jan 25, 2015 11:25 am

deleted
Last edited by BlueHeron on Fri Feb 20, 2015 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
BlueHeron
 
Posts: 1141
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:12 pm

Re: Insomnia

Postby Jumpstart » Sun Jan 25, 2015 12:24 pm

It's obvious that we have a conspiracy taking place on this board :D The powers that be can't get us to eat meat, dairy and oils so they've loaded this board with their minions. Their goal? To vilify so many plant foods that no one will be able to follow this way of eating. I think they might be succeeding.
Jumpstart
 
Posts: 913
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2014 5:32 pm

Re: Insomnia

Postby Neal » Sun Jan 25, 2015 12:37 pm

Jumpstart wrote:It's obvious that we have a conspiracy taking place on this board :D The powers that be can't get us to eat meat, dairy and oils so they've loaded this board with their minions. Their goal? To vilify so many plant foods that no one will be able to follow this way of eating. I think they might be succeeding.


One of the well known internet trolling strategies is called consensus busting. You go onto a forum that is united in a single cause etc. and then start topics that are designed to create divisions. Which IMO is why you see some posters creating the same types of threads that cause disputes over and over again (ethical vegans are superior?, flu shots etc.) You can also start a thread seeking advice and then pounce on anyone who comes down on the wrong side as you have designed it. i.e. Going on a running forum: "MY doctor wants me to switch from running to rowing. I have shin splints. I enjoy my daily runs and it is the only thing that brings me peace and happiness.(everyone knows running causes/aggravates shin splints, just as caffeine causes/aggravates sleep problems) and don't really want to quit etc." and then wait for people to tell you that you should stop running.

It is a loaded question. As soon as someone tells them they should stop running the trap is sprung.
But it also works for people who have a need to play victim or a desire to shame others.

They also like to bring in contrarian information and ask for views, and then taking people to task for being so judgemental/ group think, brainwashed etc. when posters disagree with the information.

They give themselves away a lot because of their "you people (the entire forum) are so horrible..." posts. Clearly differentiating themselves as not really being part of the group.

IT is not about vilifying tea. But if a poster presents that the tea is the only thing that they associate with their insomnia, what do you expect helpful posters to do? Just ignore the known link?
Neal
 
Posts: 274
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:24 pm

PreviousNext

Return to The Lounge

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 20 guests


cron

Welcome!

Sign up to receive our regular articles, recipes, and news about upcoming events.