A Vegan diet fails to prevent heart disease!

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Re: A Vegan diet fails to prevent heart disease!

Postby Norman » Sun May 05, 2013 1:38 pm

Thanks so much for your responses and messages of support.
I appreciate the clear articulation of what I had to learn the hard way that a sloppy execution of the principles of this program is not enough to protect us from disease. It's worth it to make the effort and go !00%. To fudge even a little blurs the line so much that soon one becomes unconscious of the extent of the deviations from healthful living as more and more exceptions arise.

The other point I wanted to make is that the medical establishment is clearly lined up against us. Once they get us in their offices and hospitals Doctors seem determined to assert their authority. The pressure is immense to submit to their drugs and surgeries. They have little interest in hearing about healing with diet and often dismiss it as ignorant superstition or the latest fad. We need to be well armed with clear information when we see them. For instance Dr McDougall does not recommend lowering diastolic pressure with medication lower than 83.
The risk of heart attack and stoke is reduced down to 83. When it goes lower than this the risk increases again. If with medication the diastolic gets too low muscle tissue could die particularly in the extremities. Will my cardiologist agree? At any rate I'm in charge of my own health and I'm going with Dr McDougall with this.

I do not look forward to my cardiologist appointment.

Norman
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Re: A Vegan diet fails to prevent heart disease!

Postby jamietwo » Sun May 05, 2013 1:39 pm

Thanks for sharing, Norman, and good luck!

What Lacey said!
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Re: A Vegan diet fails to prevent heart disease!

Postby MBaker60 » Sun May 05, 2013 2:17 pm

Norman,
Your story is so encouraging. It is frustrating to keep the bad stuff from creeping in. Even today, I learned of a new eating behavior that causes me not to pay attention to what I eat.
I am just starting out on this WOE and it is difficult to fight those thoughts of "a little bit won't hurt," but it does hurt your body. I have come to realize that I cannot eat out at even some vegan restaurants because of the excessive salt and oil. I agree with Dr. Klaper about staying away from them. I have high blood pressure and 300 total cholesterol. I cannot get others to understand what I am wanting to do will save my life and theirs. You or someone who posted mentioned they were told they had a eating disorder if they ate this way. From observing my own eating behavior, something is wrong if I continue to eat the SAD knowing it harms me. Good Luck in your efforts toward good health.
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Re: A Vegan diet fails to prevent heart disease!

Postby MBaker60 » Sun May 05, 2013 2:17 pm

Norman,
Your story is so encouraging. It is frustrating to keep the bad stuff from creeping in. Even today, I learned of a new eating behavior that causes me not to pay attention to what I eat.
I am just starting out on this WOE and it is difficult to fight those thoughts of "a little bit won't hurt," but it does hurt your body. I have come to realize that I cannot eat out at even some vegan restaurants because of the excessive salt and oil. I agree with Dr. Klaper about staying away from them. I have high blood pressure and 300 total cholesterol. I cannot get others to understand what I am wanting to do will save my life and theirs. You or someone who posted mentioned they were told they had a eating disorder if they ate this way. From observing my own eating behavior, something is wrong if I continue to eat the SAD knowing it harms me. Good Luck in your efforts toward good health.
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Re: A Vegan diet fails to prevent heart disease!

Postby SecondHalf » Sun May 05, 2013 2:29 pm

plants-and-carbs wrote:
astronaut23 wrote:Is tofu off plan? Then why is it in at least one of the recipes in Dr. Mcdougalls book? I tried Mary Mcdougalls eggless egg salad recipe and it had tofu in the recipe.

I've eaten at PF Changs a couple times and their buddha's feast contains tofu also.


Oh. No, tofu is not off plan. It's an ok thing to eat, but a lot of vegans go on full on tofu fests and they think vegan is all about tofu based products. Most of those fake foods are based in tofu too. Eating tofu everyday is not a great idea. Besides the fat content being a bit high, it's not that healthy of a thing to eat on a daily basis, but as something to throw into your menu here and there, it's fine.


Several people have asked if we are just substituting tofu for meat. No way! Tofu is a great once-in-awhile ingredient in our eyes. I made the McDougall Tofu Island Salad Dressing just yesterday, but doubt we'll have anything else tofu or tofu-based this week. I am a little skeptical of soy in general and so therefore try to limit it.

Thanks to the Norman for sharing his story. As we've all seen, it is possible to be a vegan and not have a healthy diet.
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Re: A Vegan diet fails to prevent heart disease!

Postby Donna R » Sun May 05, 2013 2:30 pm

When I had a heart attack and quad bypass (one artery 100% blocked) in 2012 I had been vegetarian for 26 years and vegan for 16. During that time I used some oil, after reading McDougall and Esselstyn I seldom did. But the point I want to make is this: my husband is not a vegetarian, does not “eat right” though he doesn’t eat a lot of red meat or fried food since I don’t cook it. But he has never had a heart problem, is 70 years old and his last ekg was good.

So while I believe wholly in this diet, I think we should do the best we can and not blame a heart problem on any one thing.
~ Donna
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Re: A Vegan diet fails to prevent heart disease!

Postby didi » Sun May 05, 2013 3:13 pm

Norm, On April 13 one year ago I had severe chest pains, got to the ER in time, coded, they revived me. Before I coded they were insisting I get a stent. I said no. When I woke up after coding they asked me again and this time I said yes. It is certainly hard to know what to do. The Drs say that a stent can be lifesaving. Was mine?

I had a blood clot that was blocking the artery. What is the difference between a blood clot and a blockage?

I agreed to the stent because I was afraid I would go into v fib and code again.

I was fine for a year. Then I went off plavix. Sometimes I had chest pains when I walk and if I lie down after eating. (I have not been doing too much cardio because of a hip replacement). I took probiotics for about a week and the pain after eating went away. So I don't really know what was causing the pain. The other day I had to stop several times on my walk. I had eaten just before going for the walk. Today I made sure it was a couple of hours after eating that I walked and had no trouble at all. I do know that during digestion the blood is routed to the digestive system so there may be less oxygenated blood going to the heart, especially if I exercise too soon.

However, before I stopped the Plavix I did not have this problem. Within ninety days of stopping plavix there is a good chance for a heart attack or stroke. Hope I can make it past that time. Also with a drug eluting stent there is a high chance of late stent thrombosis, sometimes a few years after the stent is placed. I am afraid that the stent is restenosing but am also afraid to put myself into the hands of the ER guys and my interventional cardiologist.

In my situation if this happened again, I do not know if I would agree to a stent or not. Especially a DES. But I am diabetic and that is what they use. While they were pressuring me to have the stent placed I was remembering that in Dr.E's words, at times a stent can be absolutely life saving. Was I one of those cases? None of the doctors or nurses would say it wasn't a life saver. And you are on your own once you get into the cath lab.

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Re: A Vegan diet fails to prevent heart disease!

Postby Acura » Sun May 05, 2013 6:07 pm

Donna R wrote:So while I believe wholly in this diet, I think we should do the best we can and not blame a heart problem on any one thing.


Donna,

You put it very beautifully. I was in similar situation. I had been vegetarian for 40 yrs, did not eat meat, fish etc and called myself vegetarian. Had heart attack at the age of 40, two stents were put in. Weighed 225 lbs, switched to the diet recommended here and lost about 55 lbs.

If you are that far off, no matter how you categorize your diet, you are not doing it right.
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Re: A Vegan diet fails to prevent heart disease!

Postby Norman » Sun May 05, 2013 6:21 pm

Didi
Wow
My experience was not as severe as yours. I did not have a heart attack. I believe you did the right thing. It's hard to be sure when under pressure. Dr Esselstyn has said there are times that stent is the right thing to do like when you are having a heart attack. For moderate chest pain alone like I had, he does not recommend it.

A blockage can be along time in developing and be relatively stable.
A blood clot sounds very dangerous and unstable. See one of Esselstyn's you tube videos. www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6pLRdawBw0

As Esselstyn has said the best thing to do to take care of yourself is
Nooooooo Oil!

Norman
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Re: A Vegan diet fails to prevent heart disease!

Postby pundit999 » Sun May 05, 2013 7:11 pm

Hi Norman: congrats on having the courage to say no to the conveyor belt to the cath lab!

My experience is quite similar to yours though I have less severe heart disease: I had chest pains while exercising and eventually went through a stress test that I failed mildly. The cardiologist wanted to do a cath and a very likely stent right away without informing me of any other options I may have.

This was before I knew about Dr Esselstyn or Dr McDougall. I was but a few minutes away from going to the operating table, but somehow had the good sense to decline the surgery. A quick online search revealed the depth of information that this way of eating is.

My cardiologist kept calling me to re-schedule the surgery. At least your doctor was honest enough to tell you that the angioplasty would not save your life. My cardiologist told me with a straight face that if I had the angioplasty, I will not have a heart attack! At that point, I knew I had to get as far away from him as possible.

You have made the right decision. But please make sure you take all the medicines such as the baby aspirin, the beta blocker, the statin etc, as you get 100% complaint. With time, you will be able to reduce the dose or eliminate them entirely.

As you already realize, you have to follow this way of eating to the letter: no oil, of course only plants and lots of green veggies. Have kale, spinach and other green leafy veggies for breakfast, lunch and dinner! And a little bit of flax meal daily.

Also a daily 30 min to an hour walk is great too. I would not advise that you pushed yourself a lot at this point.

I don't know if Dr Esselstyn has recovered enough to take phone calls, but you may want to try and talk to him. I think there is a place on heartattackproof.com where you can leave him a message to request a call back.
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Re: A Vegan diet fails to prevent heart disease!

Postby Vegankit » Sun May 05, 2013 8:23 pm

Thank you for sharing. I look forward to reading about your progress as you gain your health.
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Re: A Vegan diet fails to prevent heart disease!

Postby Skip » Mon May 06, 2013 7:19 am

I found the following testimonial inspirational. If this gentleman was in America, I'd bet that a stent or bypass would have been advised initially...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLNA12RKFdE
"The fundamental principle of ethics is reverence for life" Albert Schweitzer
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Re: A Vegan diet fails to prevent heart disease!

Postby Rychei » Mon May 06, 2013 9:16 pm

Your story will truly be an inspiration to your family for many years to come. May your example bless their lives too.
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Re: A Vegan diet fails to prevent heart disease!

Postby Norman » Sat May 11, 2013 8:01 am

4/20 evening BP 160/100
Angina with mild activity
A1c 6.6 Reccomended stent for blockage

Update
5/11

21 days whole foods Plant Based Diet

Last night mild numbness on right hand during the night, but less then before.

Morning BP with no medication 124/77
Blood sugar 96

1 hr on treadmill with no chest pains

Very rapid recovery to normal blood pressure and pulse after treadmill.
5 minutes
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Re: A Vegan diet fails to prevent heart disease!

Postby Norman » Sat May 11, 2013 8:07 am

Forgot on update 5/11

lost 10lbs in last 21 days
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