Men's Journal interview with Dr Fuhrman

For those questions and discussions on the McDougall program that don’t seem to fit in any other forum.

Moderators: JeffN, f1jim, John McDougall, carolve, Heather McDougall

Re: Men's Journal interview with Dr Fuhrman

Postby FitKid » Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:26 pm

f1jim wrote:Wow, I need to prove BPA is beneficial? Hmmm. I didn't post here saying there were disastrous health consequences to canned foods. You did. Therefore the burden of proof is not on me it's on you to prove it has done so. I may agree mostly, that BPA is not something I prefer to consume but has it had disastrous consequences? You must prove that. I am free to accept or reject any such claim and place it along the spectrum of valid-----------to worthless. In the meantime the process goes on toward removing it from many canning facilities.

You said:
" Protein-Crossing linking and the forming of Acrilymides, HCAs, AGEs, PCAH during the cooking process are toxic and are recommended by ALL experts to be kept out of the human diet or to the very minimum. These occur during cooking except for steaming and boiling methods. The science here is solid.

Do you care to disagree? If so please provide credible reference."

Again, you make a claim then put the burden of proof on me to disprove it. The person making the claim has the entire burden of proof. You conveniently sidestepped the arguments I put forth and continued making more unsubstantiated claims. I encourage everyone to pursue your links and determine if your claims are substantiated. Certainly the number of studies you quote is high. It's good that these studies are in the system but do they prove your point? I'm not convinced because I'm looking for something a bit different in terms of outcome than you are. All cultures have a history in regard to chronic disease. Many seem to have excellent health and longevity and manage to do that on a diet heavy on cooked foods. That tells me something. Perhaps that means we won't ever agree till I see something a bit more substantial in convincing me to convert to more raw. Perhaps reading the clearly charismatic writing in "Raw Logic." Till then the data on cooked vs raw is pretty even as I see it. Good things happen when you consume both foods but not enough to convince me cooked food is dangerous or toxic. Nor do your articles. But then, maybe I am just pigheaded. If so many of you will be quick to let me know!
By the way, I happen to know that Dr. Campbell eats a diet high in cooked foods. I guess he hasn't studied the literature.

f1jim


Have you read "Raw Logic" it's basically a biochemistry book.

The benefits that raw foods confer is significant. Dr. Fuhrman discusses this all the time. He recommends a diet around 50% raw.

I also advocate starches for macro-nutrients and I am not against cooked food at all. I have stated that avoiding cooking toxins by steaming and boiling is the best.

I very much doubt Dr. Campbell is unaware of this information.

I've provided links on BPA with finding by experts that are far more credible than you and more qualified.

Also I request that Dr. McDougall review this thread if possible.

Here is the report once more:
http://www.ewg.org/book/export/html/20928

What they said:
BPA is associated with a number of health problems and diseases that are on the rise in the U.S. population, including breast and prostate cancer and infertility. Given widespread human exposure to BPA and hundreds of studies showing its adverse effects, the FDA and EPA must act quickly to set safe levels for BPA exposure based on the latest science on the low-dose toxicity of the chemical.

These were their references:
References

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Akingbemi BT, Sottas CM, Koulova AI, Klinefelter GR, Hardy MP. 2004. Inhibition of testicular steroidogenesis by the xenoestrogen bisphenol A is associated with reduced pituitary luteinizing hormone secretion and decreased steroidogenic enzyme gene expression in rat Leydig cells. Endocrinology. 145(2):592-603.

Al-Hiyasat AS, Darmani, H, Elbetieha, AM 2002. Effects of bisphenol A on adult male mouse fertility. European journal of oral sciences 110(2): 163-7.

Alonso-Magdalena P, Morimoto S, Ripoll C, Fuentes E, Nadal A. 2006. The estrogenic effect of bisphenol A disrupts pancreatic beta-cell function in vivo and induces insulin resistance. Environ Health Perspect 114(1): 106-12.

Arakawa, C., Fujimaki, K., Yoshinaga, J., Imai, H., Serizawa, S., and Shiraishi, H. 2004. Daily urinary excretion of bisphenol A. Environmental Health and Preventive Medicine 9: 22-26.

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Barrett, J.R. 2006. Fertile grounds of inquiry: environmental effects on human reproduction. Environ Health Perspect 114(11): A644-9.

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Elsby, R., J. L. Maggs, et al. 2001. Comparison of the modulatory effects of human and rat liver microsomal metabolism on the estrogenicity of bisphenol A: implications for extrapolation to humans. J Pharmacol Exp Ther 297(1): 103-13.

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FDA (U.S. Food and Drug Administration). 2004. Office of Science and Engineering Laboratories Annual Report FY 2004.

FDA (U.S. Food and Drug Administration). 1996. Cumulative exposure estimated for bisphenol A (BPA), individually for adults and infants from its use in epoxy-based can coatings and polycarbonate (PC) articles, verbal request of 10-23-95, memorandum to G. Diachenki, Ph.D., Division of Product Manufacture and Use, HGS-245, from Allan B. Bailey, Ph.D., Chemistry Review Branch, HFS-245.

Goodson A, Summerfield W, Cooper I. 2002. Survey of bisphenol A and bisphenol F in canned foods. Food Addit Contam; 19: 796-802.

Goodson AH, Robin, et al. 2004. Migration of bisphenol A from can coatings--effects of damage, storage conditions and heating. Food Addit Contam 21(10): 1015-26.

Grob K, Spinner C, Brunner M, Etter R. 1999. The migration from the internal coatings of food cans; summary of the findings and call for more effective regulation of polymers in contact with foods: a review. Food Addit Contam. 1999 Dec;16(12):579-90.

Hanaoka, T., N. Kawamura, et al. 2002. Urinary bisphenol A and plasma hormone concentrations in male workers exposed to bisphenol A diglycidyl ether and mixed organic solvents. Occup Environ Med 59(9): 625-8.

Hiroi H, Tsutsumi, O., Takeuchi, T., Momoeda, M., Ikezuki, Y., Okamura, A., Yokota, H., Taketani, Y. 2004. Differences in serum bisphenol a concentrations in premenopausal normal women and women with endometrial hyperplasia. Endocr J 51(6): 595-600.

Ho SM, Tang WY, Belmonte de Frausto J, Prins GS. 2006. Developmental exposure to estradiol and bisphenol A increases susceptibility to prostate carcinogenesis and epigenetically regulates phosphodiesterase type 4 variant 4. Cancer Res 66(11): 5624-32.

Honma S, Suzuki A, Buchanan DL, Katsu Y, Watanabe H, Iguchi T. 2002. Low dose effect of in utero exposure to bisphenol A and diethylstilbestrol on female mouse reproduction. Reproductive Toxicology. 16:117-22.

Howdeshell, K, AK Hotchkiss, KA Thayer, JG Vandenbergh and FS vom Saal. 1999. Plastic bisphenol A speeds growth and puberty. Nature 401: 762-764.

Hunt PA, Koehler KE, Susiarjo M, Hodges CA, Hagan A, Voigt RC, et al. Bisphenol A causes meiotic aneuploidy in the female mouse. Current Biology. 2003;13:546-53.

IATP (Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy). 2006. Smart Plastics Guide. http://www.iatp.org/foodandhealth/

Ikezuki, Y., O. Tsutsumi, et al. 2002. Determination of bisphenol A concentrations in human biological fluids reveals significant early prenatal exposure. Hum Reprod 17(11): 2839-41.

Ishido M, Masuo Y, Kunimoto M, Oka S, Morita M. 2004. Bisphenol A causes hyperactivity in the rat concomitantly with impairment of tyrosine hydroxylase immunoreactivity. Journal of Neuroscience Research. 76(3):423-33.

Jakubowicz, D. J., Iuorno, M. J., Jakubowicz, S., Roberts, K. A., Nestler, J. E. 2002. Effects of metformin on early pregnancy loss in the polycystic ovary syndrome. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 87(2): 524-9.

Kawai K, Takehiro N, Nishikata H, Aou S, Takii M, Kubo C. 2003. Aggressive behavior and serum testosterone concentration during the maturation process of male mice: The effects of fetal exposure to bisphenol A. Environmental Health Perspectives. 111:175-8.

Kubo K, Arai O, Omura M, Watanabe R, Ogata R, Aou S. 2003. Low dose effects of bisphenol A on sexual differentiation of the brain and behavior in rats. Neurosci Res 45:345–356.

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Kuruto-Niwa, R., Y. Tateoka, et al. 2007. Measurement of bisphenol A concentrations in human colostrum. Chemosphere 66(6): 1160-4.

Lee DH, Lee IK, Song K, Steffes M, Toscano W, Baker BA, et al. 2006. A strong dose-response relation between serum concentrations of persistent organic pollutants and diabetes: results from the National Health and Examination Survey 1999-2002. Diabetes Care 29(7): 1638-44.

Maffini MV, Rubin BS, Sonnenschein C, Soto A.M. 2006. Endocrine disruptors and reproductive health: the case of bisphenol-A. Mol Cell Endocrinol 254-255: 8.

Markey CM, Wadia PR, Rubin BS, Sonnenschein C, Soto AM. 2005. Long-term effects of fetal exposure to low doses of the xenoestrogen bisphenol-A in the female mouse genital tract. Biology of reproduction 72(6): 1344-51.

Masuno, H., T. Kidani, K. Sekiya, K. Sakayama, T. Shiosaka, H. Yamamoto and K. Honda, (2002). “Bisphenol A in combination with insulin can accelerate the conversion of 3T3-L1 fibroblasts to adipocytes.” J. Lipid Res. 43: 676-684.

Matsumoto A KN, Kitagawa K, Isse T, Oyama T, Foureman GL, Morita M, Kawamoto T. 2003. Bisphenol A levels in human urine. Environ Health Perspect 111(1): 101-4.

Munguía-López , E. M., Gerardo-Lugo, S., Peralta, E., Bolumen, S. and Soto-Valdez, H. 2005. Migration of bisphenol A (BPA) from can coatings into a fatty-food simulant and tuna fish. Food Addit Contam 22: 892-8

Muñoz-de-Toro M, Markey CM, et al. 2005. Perinatal exposure to bisphenol-A alters peripubertal mammary gland development in mice. Endocrinology 146(9): 4138-47.

Murray TJ, Maffini MV, Ucci AA, Sonnenschein C, Soto AM. 2007. Induction of mammary gland ductal hyperplasias and carcinoma in situ following fetal bisphenol A exposure. Reprod Toxicol 23(3): 383-90.

Myers JP. 2006. Good genes gone bad. American Prospect, April 2006, available at: http://www.ourstolenfuture.org/Commenta ... gonebad.... referenced: 3/1/07.

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Nakamura K, Itoh K, Yaoi T, Fujiwara Y, Sugimoto T, Fushiki S. Murine neocortical histogenesis is perturbed by prenatal exposure to low doses of bisphenol A. Journal of Neuroscience Research. 2006;84(6):1197-205.

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Re: Men's Journal interview with Dr Fuhrman

Postby FitKid » Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:37 pm

By the way...

You call my claims unsubstantiated???

I refuse to devolve into name calling. I've provided ample amounts of evidence and references and even offered more!

Here's one more statement (the biggest) on BPA:

http://edrv.endojournals.org/content/30/4/293.abstract

Endocrine-Disrupting Chemicals: An Endocrine Society Scientific Statement

Evanthia Diamanti-Kandarakis,
Jean-Pierre Bourguignon,
Linda C. Giudice,
Russ Hauser,
Gail S. Prins,
Ana M. Soto,
R. Thomas Zoeller and
Andrea C. Gore

- Author Affiliations

Endocrine Section of First Department of Medicine (E.D.-K.), Laiko Hospital, Medical School University of Athens, 11527 Athens, Greece; Department of Pediatrics (J.-P.B.), Centre Hospitalier Universitaire de Liege, 4000 Liege, Belgium; Department of Obstetrics, Gynecology, and Reproductive Sciences (L.C.G.), University of California San Francisco, San Francisco, California 94131; Department of Environmental Health (R.H.), Harvard School of Public Health, Boston, Massachusetts 02115; Department of Urology (G.S.P.), University of Illinois at Chicago, Chicago, Illinois 60612; Department of Anatomy and Cell Biology (A.M.S.), Tufts University School of Medicine, Boston, Massachusetts 02111; Biology Department (R.T.Z.), University of Massachusetts, Amherst, Massachusetts 01003; and Division of Pharmacology and Toxicology (A.C.G.), The University of Texas at Austin, Austin, Texas 78712

Address all correspondence and requests for reprints to: Andrea C. Gore, Ph.D., The University of Texas at Austin, College of Pharmacy, 1 University Station, A1915, Austin, Texas 78712. E-mail: [email protected].

Abstract

There is growing interest in the possible health threat posed by endocrine-disrupting chemicals (EDCs), which are substances in our environment, food, and consumer products that interfere with hormone biosynthesis, metabolism, or action resulting in a deviation from normal homeostatic control or reproduction. In this first Scientific Statement of The Endocrine Society, we present the evidence that endocrine disruptors have effects on male and female reproduction, breast development and cancer, prostate cancer, neuroendocrinology, thyroid, metabolism and obesity, and cardiovascular endocrinology. Results from animal models, human clinical observations, and epidemiological studies converge to implicate EDCs as a significant concern to public health. The mechanisms of EDCs involve divergent pathways including (but not limited to) estrogenic, antiandrogenic, thyroid, peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor γ, retinoid, and actions through other nuclear receptors; steroidogenic enzymes; neurotransmitter receptors and systems; and many other pathways that are highly conserved in wildlife and humans, and which can be modeled in laboratory in vitro and in vivo models. Furthermore, EDCs represent a broad class of molecules such as organochlorinated pesticides and industrial chemicals, plastics and plasticizers, fuels, and many other chemicals that are present in the environment or are in widespread use. We make a number of recommendations to increase understanding of effects of EDCs, including enhancing increased basic and clinical research, invoking the precautionary principle, and advocating involvement of individual and scientific society stakeholders in communicating and implementing changes in public policy and awareness.

Received February 2, 2009.
Accepted April 17, 2009.
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Re: Men's Journal interview with Dr Fuhrman

Postby FitKid » Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:30 am

One more thing F1jim,

As I have requested Dr. McDougall review on this subject and seeing that you also took issue with my comments on my "unsubstantiated" Food Cooking Toxins, I found an Article for you by Dr. McDougall. Here's the link:
http://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2005nl/ ... lamide.htm

Although I briefly discussed more than just acrylamides.
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Re: Men's Journal interview with Dr Fuhrman

Postby didi » Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:04 am

My problem is not that I think raw food isn't healthful, but that raw foodists think cooked food isn't. Here are some foods I regularly eat raw--some of these I also cook, like kale.

Tomatoes, lettuces, spinach, Kale, cabbage, carrots, red peppers, peas, cucumbers, zucchini, yellow summer squash, onions, garlic, cauliflower, occasionally raw beets, celery and every kind of fruit.

I eat cooked grains, potatoes and sweet potatoes, winter squashes, okra, artichokes, mushrooms, eggplant, green beans,broccoli,spinach and brussels sprouts (I have seen chefs used chopped up brussels sprouts raw like they would raw cabbage and I might try it some day), also escarole, kale, collards, beets.

There are probably some I left out in both categories.

If there are enzymes to be had from raw fruits and vegetables and they are healthful then I think I must be getting plenty in the food I regularly eat raw.

There are about 20,000 edible plants or parts of plants on this planet. Only about 130 are commercially available and only about 30 of these are regularly consumed in this country. (I would love to eat purslane which grows wild all over the place in Europe but I have never seen it here. It is chock full of omega threes and other good things. My grandfather regularly picked dandelions and poke weed which he ate raw and cooked and from which he made wine.) So even raw food faddists are not getting the nutrients from the thousands of wonderful plant foods available on earth.

There was a time when canned foods were extremely dangerous because they were sealed with lead. I believe some arctic explorers died from lead poisoning from eating canned foods.

Didi
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Re: Men's Journal interview with Dr Fuhrman

Postby FitKid » Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:00 am

didi wrote:My problem is not that I think raw food isn't healthful, but that raw foodists think cooked food isn't. Here are some foods I regularly eat raw--some of these I also cook, like kale.

Tomatoes, lettuces, spinach, Kale, cabbage, carrots, red peppers, peas, cucumbers, zucchini, yellow summer squash, onions, garlic, cauliflower, occasionally raw beets, celery and every kind of fruit.

I eat cooked grains, potatoes and sweet potatoes, winter squashes, okra, artichokes, mushrooms, eggplant, green beans,broccoli,spinach and brussels sprouts (I have seen chefs used chopped up brussels sprouts raw like they would raw cabbage and I might try it some day), also escarole, kale, collards, beets.

There are probably some I left out in both categories.

If there are enzymes to be had from raw fruits and vegetables and they are healthful then I think I must be getting plenty in the food I regularly eat raw.

There are about 20,000 edible plants or parts of plants on this planet. Only about 130 are commercially available and only about 30 of these are regularly consumed in this country. (I would love to eat purslane which grows wild all over the place in Europe but I have never seen it here. It is chock full of omega threes and other good things. My grandfather regularly picked dandelions and poke weed which he ate raw and cooked and from which he made wine.) So even raw food faddists are not getting the nutrients from the thousands of wonderful plant foods available on earth.

There was a time when canned foods were extremely dangerous because they were sealed with lead. I believe some arctic explorers died from lead poisoning from eating canned foods.

Didi


Great stuff Didi!!!

Personally I avoid mushrooms for the most part and wouldn't recommend large quantities if consumed. Some contain differing levels of hydrazines (agaritine) which have caused cancer in animals and suspected carcinogens in humans and things like shiitake may have formaldehyde. They do have benefits and some of these toxins are minimized a little by cooking or marinating with something acidic.

Also wild plants should be avoided by inexperienced people and have apparently killed a number of raw foodists so that's a big warning. There are many wilds plants that are super nutritious, some are high in things like oxalates (so too are normal varieties) and this may have an effect on certain people and may trigger pain and inflammation. This is an area that I haven't looked into as much as I'd like.

There are theories that if we consume enough raw foods and cold press juice them, it can have an effect on disease processes. But there would have to be considerable investigation into this area to bring any scientific support but the idea in my opinion looks like it's really worth investigating. :D

Your diet looks very healthful!!! :)

PS I should add that certain types of cooking does produce foods that aren't healthful but that doesn't mean that cooking isn't healthful. For example cooking carrot or cabbage does provide large increases in certain micro-nutrients.
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Re: Men's Journal interview with Dr Fuhrman

Postby Ginger » Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:30 am

Didi
You can grow purslane ANYWHERE! It is a weed, so most people don't recognize it as a healthy food and probably mow it, pull it, poison it (Roundup) and get rid of it any way they can. You can order seeds from some nurseries. However, once you have it in your yard or garden, it will spread prolifically - it is very opportunistic! I grow it here in Panama. It even shows up in pots (of other plants). So you could grow it in pots also.
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Re: Men's Journal interview with Dr Fuhrman

Postby f1jim » Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:36 am

You have provided enough proof that BPA's are a possible toxin in our diet. They are not something I want to ingest on a regular basis. I am not arguing that they are healthy. Clearly they are not and it appears they are being phased out. The fact that detectible amounts are in our products doesn't mean we should panic. It means we should alter the chemicals involved in the process.
As far as toxins involved in cooking we know that overcooking of any item caries a risk of increasing harmful products in that food. Fortunately, most of the methods that appear to be the worst offenders we avoid. Frying foods in oil, for example. Also most vegetables require very little high heat cooking and unless you are not particularly careful there is little danger. Again, we don't see these problems in long lived cultures that cook their food. Clearly there is a disconnect between claims of toxicity and general cooking of vegetables and grains.
The very last line in the Dr. McDougall article you quote says it all. If you wish him to view this thread write him and let him know.

"The benefits that raw foods confer is significant. Dr. Fuhrman discusses this all the time. He recommends a diet around 50% raw."

That would be germain if this were the Dr. Fuhrman support board. It is not.

"I very much doubt Dr. Campbell is unaware of this information. "

Then after watching Dr. Campbell eat several cooked meals I guess it's not enough of an issue to worry him. I find that comforting. You also may want to send a note to Dr. McDougall asking him if Dr. Campbell requested no canned foods when he appears at McDougall events. I am unaware of such requests.

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Re: Men's Journal interview with Dr Fuhrman

Postby didi » Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:52 am

Ginger, I can't even find seed packets of purslane in the markets or plant nurseries where I live. I would love to grow them in pots. I live in a small apartment and no one window gets much sunlight for long hours so the pots would have to be moved around.

Didi
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Re: Men's Journal interview with Dr Fuhrman

Postby FitKid » Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:26 pm

Allow me to repost my reply. If you have personal concerns you can remove this post as well.

f1jim wrote:You have provided enough proof that BPA's are a possible toxin in our diet. They are not something I want to ingest on a regular basis. I am not arguing that they are healthy. Clearly they are not and it appears they are being phased out. The fact that detectible amounts are in our products doesn't mean we should panic. It means we should alter the chemicals involved in the process.


Thank you for now beginning to see my point.

The levels detected were of very high concentrations. They are well above any "safe" level. The toxins found are wide spread in the vast majority of canned products.

It is prudent to avoid these toxins as the "typical" levels found as they are considered unsafe for human consumption by the leading experts and the evidence is in my view is very strong and should not be dismissed or made light of.

If there is no longer evidence of these widespread high concentrations of these toxins then canned food may be safe until that time I think canned food (amongst things) should be avoided.

f1jim wrote: As far as toxins involved in cooking we know that overcooking of any item caries a risk of increasing harmful products in that food. Fortunately, most of the methods that appear to be the worst offenders we avoid. Frying foods in oil, for example. Also most vegetables require very little high heat cooking and unless you are not particularly careful there is little danger. Again, we don't see these problems in long lived cultures that cook their food. Clearly there is a disconnect between claims of toxicity and general cooking of vegetables and grains.
The very last line in the Dr. McDougall article you quote says it all.


Clearly I find the evidence here is against this. Simple toasting of bread creates a significant concentration of these toxins. Traditional cultures did not eat from cans, they do not toast bread (a carbohydrate). Baking and roasting where browning occurs also creates food toxins. There's also contextual error that you've brought in here from what Dr. McDougall is saying as I have pointed out. Please see the charts and content of food.

Also there are more toxins than acrylamides such as polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons which can also increase in cooking carbohydrates.

f1jim wrote:
If you wish him to view this thread write him and let him know.


Thanks for the email. I intend to.

f1jim wrote:
"The benefits that raw foods confer is significant. Dr. Fuhrman discusses this all the time. He recommends a diet around 50% raw."

That would be germain if this were the Dr. Fuhrman support board. It is not.


Perhaps.

f1jim wrote:
"I very much doubt Dr. Campbell is unaware of this information. "

Then after watching Dr. Campbell eat several cooked meals I guess it's not enough of an issue to worry him. I find that comforting. You also may want to send a note to Dr. McDougall asking him if Dr. Campbell requested no canned foods when he appears at McDougall events. I am unaware of such requests.

f1jim


Actually that was speculation on my part. I'm pretty sure I wasn't referring to BPA in cans when I mentioned that (so taken a bit of context), it was on food toxins and myrosinase/alliinase.

Two more points (BPA & Myrosinase/Allinase) where you have made assertions against the copious amounts of evidence exists to the exact contrary.

Anything I say here will be more conjecture, so I suggest you ask Dr. Campbell and present him with evidence, see what he'd have to say rather than "guess". Thank you for stating that you are "unaware" if Dr. Campbell made requests on canned food. Not sure if that should be the litmus test though.

I also eat cooked food, that was never the issue.
Last edited by FitKid on Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Men's Journal interview with Dr Fuhrman

Postby Waingapu » Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:48 pm

FitKid wrote:Simple toasting of bread creates a significant concentration of these toxins..
.


Its official, the world has gone mad....
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Re: Men's Journal interview with Dr Fuhrman

Postby FitKid » Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:57 pm

Waingapu wrote:
FitKid wrote:Simple toasting of bread creates a significant concentration of these toxins..
.


Its official, the world has gone mad....


Yeah, you learn something everyday!
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Re: Men's Journal interview with Dr Fuhrman

Postby rickfm » Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:01 pm

Waingapu wrote:
FitKid wrote:Simple toasting of bread creates a significant concentration of these toxins..
.


Its official, the world has gone mad....

Death by toast. The apocalypse is upon us.

The horror...
~Rick

Mmmm.... cabbage!
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Re: Men's Journal interview with Dr Fuhrman

Postby patty » Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:34 pm

f1jim wrote:You have provided enough proof that BPA's are a possible toxin in our diet. They are not something I want to ingest on a regular basis. I am not arguing that they are healthy. Clearly they are not and it appears they are being phased out. The fact that detectible amounts are in our products doesn't mean we should panic. It means we should alter the chemicals involved in the process.
As far as toxins involved in cooking we know that overcooking of any item caries a risk of increasing harmful products in that food. Fortunately, most of the methods that appear to be the worst offenders we avoid. Frying foods in oil, for example. Also most vegetables require very little high heat cooking and unless you are not particularly careful there is little danger. Again, we don't see these problems in long lived cultures that cook their food. Clearly there is a disconnect between claims of toxicity and general cooking of vegetables and grains.
The very last line in the Dr. McDougall article you quote says it all. If you wish him to view this thread write him and let him know.

"The benefits that raw foods confer is significant. Dr. Fuhrman discusses this all the time. He recommends a diet around 50% raw."

That would be germain if this were the Dr. Fuhrman support board. It is not.

"I very much doubt Dr. Campbell is unaware of this information. "

Then after watching Dr. Campbell eat several cooked meals I guess it's not enough of an issue to worry him. I find that comforting. You also may want to send a note to Dr. McDougall asking him if Dr. Campbell requested no canned foods when he appears at McDougall events. I am unaware of such requests.

f1jim


Actually I remember on Dr. Fuhrman's forum someone sharing Dr. Fuhrman told him 80% raw would be ok. Eating raw starch green and yellow veggies... with low calorie dense veggies and fruits and 20% cooked starches, grains, legumes.. could be doable being starch centered. Just a thought. Extra cooked starch could always be added if still hungry. It is the processed foods and nuts that are the hook for me. Hmmm interesting lens:)

Aloha, patty
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Re: Men's Journal interview with Dr Fuhrman

Postby f1jim » Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:28 pm

It really is about where the calories come from. If they come primarily from starch it's a starch based diet. If they come from nuts it's a nut based diet, and so on. Dr. McDougall teaches to make the majority of calories from starch. Filling in the rest with other veggies.
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Re: Men's Journal interview with Dr Fuhrman

Postby squarepusher » Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:24 am

FitKid wrote:
f1jim wrote: As far as toxins involved in cooking we know that overcooking of any item caries a risk of increasing harmful products in that food. Fortunately, most of the methods that appear to be the worst offenders we avoid. Frying foods in oil, for example. Also most vegetables require very little high heat cooking and unless you are not particularly careful there is little danger. Again, we don't see these problems in long lived cultures that cook their food. Clearly there is a disconnect between claims of toxicity and general cooking of vegetables and grains.
The very last line in the Dr. McDougall article you quote says it all.


Clearly I find the evidence here is against this. Simple toasting of bread creates a significant concentration of these toxins. Traditional cultures did not eat from cans, they do not toast bread (a carbohydrate). Baking and roasting where browning occurs also creates food toxins. There's also contextual error that you've brought in here from what Dr. McDougall is saying as I have pointed out. Please see the charts and content of food.

Also there are more toxins than acrylamides such as polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons which can also increase in cooking carbohydrates.


I also eat cooked food, that was never the issue.


I'll take you up on this, so you plan to eat raw wheat? Humans have had fire and thus cooking for hundreds of thousands of years, and cooking very likely played a key role in our existence today.

I'm really not sure what point you are making, other than avoid canned foods and eat 50% raw? I already avoid most canned foods, but some things I buy still comes in cans. Could you eat a potato raw?
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