Dr. McDougall's Online Discussion Board

Posted: **Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:00 pm**

Pretty balance rundown on the showdown, without distorting each other's position. This one accurately states where they stand.

http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20 ... ?p=2&tc=pg

Posted: **Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:21 pm**

Chimichanga wrote:Pretty balance rundown on the showdown, without distorting each other's position. This one accurately states where they stand.

http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20 ... ?p=2&tc=pg

I just lifted this from the above article:

Wearing a shirt that read “Kale is the new beef,” referring to a form of cabbage, Fuhrman pulled up a sleeve and flexed his bicep, then lifted the shirt to show his lean abs.

I'm just wondering if this was before or after he humiliated that poor man who had the temerity to ask hine a question in front of a couple of hundred people - he sounds like such a pleasant fellow!

Posted: **Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:30 pm**

Jack19 wrote:
Chimichanga wrote:Pretty balance rundown on the showdown, without distorting each other's position. This one accurately states where they stand.

http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20 ... ?p=2&tc=pg

I just lifted this from the above article:

Wearing a shirt that read “Kale is the new beef,” referring to a form of cabbage, Fuhrman pulled up a sleeve and flexed his bicep, then lifted the shirt to show his lean abs.

I'm just wondering if this was before or after he humiliated that poor man who had the temerity to ask hine a question in front of a couple of hundred people - he sounds like such a pleasant fellow!

I wondered that too.

Posted: **Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:37 pm**

It was at the beginning of the debate that he lifted his shirt. Also during the meal that followed. (See what you miss when you are not here?)
The banter back and forth about what each doctors position on certain foods and food groups is part of each mans frustration. The interpretations vary widely and if you ask each of them they think they are being consistent. I am sure it's challenging for each of them to be fully understood by people at large. It's tough enough when listening to their words directly, much less through paraphrasing from others. But because they have their own spin on topics like the glycemic index or any number of subjects their focus tends to get distorted. When you put them together you find they have a LOT more in common than not. I have personally heard each of them compliment the other on getting things pretty much right. I think both are correct in that regard. my issues with both are pretty niggling. We are blessed to have both spreading the plant based, whole foods message. If the U.S. and Canada ate either one of their diets exclusively we would be in such better shape in terms of health and health expenditures we wouldn't be making health care the issue it is today. It would be a blip on the radar. I say follow them both. Fine tune for your personal situation and spread the message for both of them.
And for many here wondering, please check out a future ASW online or in person. It's worth the price. I want to see Gramma Jackie at one of these events some day. It would be a lot of fun.
f1jim

Posted: **Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:55 pm**

f1jim wrote: I want to see Gramma Jackie at one of these events some day. It would be a lot of fun.
f1jim

Jim, I have lived all over the world, including Northern California, but I now live almost 2000 miles from Santa Rosa, so I doubt you'll see me at one of Dr. McDougall's conferences. I am closer to where Dr. Fuhrman is located, but I have to admit I am a one man woman.

If Dr. McDougall ever comes to speak at one of The Wellness Forum conferences here in Ohio, I'll definitely be there.

Posted: **Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:34 pm**

Adrienne wrote:I was going to type up the exchange but Jim is correct that you really need to all of see it. I just thought the whole thing was in bad taste and I am glad John Mackey correctly pointed out that the comment was inappropriate. Dr F did apologize but did so while laughing. It seemed disingenuous.

To be fair to Dr F, when Scott then informed everyone of his 100 pound weight loss so far (which was greeted with applause) Dr F did reply with "Really, wow. Keep going in the right direction." That seemed sincere. Then he went on about how "that type of attitude is a person looking for excuses" and how traveling is just another excuse for people wishing to further their addictions which IMO kind of veered from the original question which was eating McD vs Dr F while on the road.

(Dr F, when he got around to answering the original question, said he goes straight to whole foods and prepares food for himself while traveling, demonstrating that Scott was correct in saying that its easier to eat McD-style on the road.)

Jim, Scott didn't ask Dr F for his opinion on his weight; he asked a general, practical question about how to eat when traveling, and since it was a debate, to compare the accessibility of starches in restaurants vs the foods Dr F recommends. He didn't ask to be interrupted with a snarky remark about his personal appearance!

I can't imagine Dr McD going to a Fuhrman event and speaking to any of the audience members that way.

On a side note, I thought Scott handled himself really well in that situation and I am rooting for him to become a future star mcdougaller!!!

I was there, and completely agree with what you said.

Posted: **Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:03 pm**

Jellen wrote:
f1jim wrote: I say follow them both. Fine tune for your personal situation...
f1jim

That's exactly how I operate, Jim-- a little wisdom from one and some from the other.

Sounds wise :-)

I listened to Dr. Fuhrman's talk again and the one part I didn't quite get in my notes is the amount of the foods he lists for his "nutritarian prescription", e.g. 1/2 cup of beans, 3 fruits, 1 large salad, etc.: the amount is at least that much. He also said that salad is the main dish (have a large one for at least one meal). It can have beans, onions, mushrooms, carrots, beets, etc. on it. One of the slides said that nutritarian is vegetable-based: lots of greens, beans, seeds, nuts, fruits. It's basically opposite Dr. McDougall, but I agree with Jim, the differences, in the bigger picture, are minor (considering the SAD).

I found Dr. Fuhrman's talk about true hunger interesting, along with a lot of other things he said. I can see using various things from each Dr.'s diet, based on what works for each individual.

Very interesting! Food for thought!

Does anyone have a recipe for any of Dr. F's salad dressings?

Posted: **Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:20 pm**

did fuhrman recommend avoiding grains/starchy vegetables?

Posted: **Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:12 pm**

No
f1jim

Posted: **Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:48 pm**

Is it just me or does Doug Lisle get better and better both in terms of the content of his lectures and his delivery style? This lecture was the shortest I have ever seen of his - a lecture I have previously heard (or perhaps sections of different lectures put together) but it was shorter and I found it more engaging this time. And I loved Dr K's question at the end about the stairwell effect. I'm sure we could all relate being in similar situations yet I would never think of asking that question to Dr Lisle. I thought his answer was very detailed yet easy to comprehend. Clearly this man knows his stuff! So many intelligent speakers at these events.

And speaking of intelligent speakers, I also very much enjoyed Dr Greger. I liked the way he wrapped it up at the, putting into perspective why the medical community is so slow to implement diet as the standard treatment of case for heart disease by comparing it to how Aspirin was ignored for 3000 yrs and how thousands died from scurvy for 100 years after lemon juice was found to cure it.
I did miss though the usual ending, which is when he presents the most ridiculous published study or article of the year.
Dr Greger looked great - to me he always appeared slim and healthy and I thought he looked the same. I did not notice that he lost weight but obviously someone else did!

Posted: **Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:59 pm**

This was posted here a few months ago but I am re-posting it. Joseph Keon, author of Whitewash, will be speaking at the next ASW. Here is a recent lecture he gave at the veg society of Hawaii. I loved his book.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cp9MwjW5QX0

And I think this was also posted a while ago. The creator of these videos about the paleo diet will also be speaking:

http://www.youtube.com/user/PrimitiveNutrition/featured

And I remembered that Dr Roberts was the guy who made this quote: "When we kill animals to eat them, they end up killing us because their flesh, which contains cholesterol and saturated fat, was never intended for human beings, who are natural herbivores."

I am already looking forward to the next ASW and I haven't even finished watching this one yet

Posted: **Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:15 am**

Adrienne wrote:This was posted here a few months ago but I am re-posting it. Joseph Keon, author of Whitewash, will be speaking at the next ASW. Here is a recent lecture he gave at the veg society of Hawaii. I loved his book.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cp9MwjW5QX0

Great lecture... emailed the link to my daughter, whose father in-law has Parkinson's. He and his wife are now doing Dr. Shintani's program here in Honolulu.

Mahalo, patty

Posted: **Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:50 am**

Jellen wrote:Dr. Fuhrman takes into account the physical condition of an individual. For example, a person with a specific kidney or liver condition may be advised to limit beans to a half cup per day or split cup of beans between two meals. Otherwise, the cup of beans per day is the measure.

Thanks. This falls more in line with Dr. McD's recommendations.

Posted: **Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:47 am**

f1jim wrote: I say follow them both. Fine tune for your personal situation and spread the message for both of them.
f1jim

This is the best take away message. I see Dr McDougall's point when he says starches are satisfying and I can not imagine how you would feel full without them. I see Dr F's point that you need to focus upon greens/veggies and limit starches, true hunger to achieve leanest weight possible and include few healthy plant sources of fat. It is for individual to tweak and find a balnce and see where they can sustain.

I think biggest difference for me would be cognitive complications/arrhythmia on low fat diet that Dr F talks about. They did not touch this subject. Rest are all mundane differences.

Posted: **Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:01 am**

I'm w/ Gramma Jackie--why can't Dr. McD have Advanced Study Weekends someplace OTHER than Santa Rosa?? He would reach a LOT more people if he spread out some. It's just way too expensive for me to go to CA and unfortunately, it's just really unlikely to happen. Now ATLANTA I could get behind!

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