ASW Weekend Update

For those questions and discussions on the McDougall program that don’t seem to fit in any other forum.

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Re: ASW Weekend Update

Postby sliggi111 » Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:22 am

ETeSelle wrote:I'm w/ Gramma Jackie--why can't Dr. McD have Advanced Study Weekends someplace OTHER than Santa Rosa?? He would reach a LOT more people if he spread out some. It's just way too expensive for me to go to CA and unfortunately, it's just really unlikely to happen. Now ATLANTA I could get behind!


I asked McDougall at the October 10 day program, if he will ever come to NYC? He said no, he is a California man.

The biggest city in the country and we don't even get one lecture...bummer?

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Re: ASW Weekend Update

Postby MMMD » Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:37 am

It doesn't even have to be NYC....just ANYWHERE on the east coast and registrations would be through the roof, I bet.
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Re: ASW Weekend Update

Postby Starchyme » Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:41 am

I second, third, fourth that!
Happy McDougalling!
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Re: ASW Weekend Update

Postby BarbG » Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:25 am

Chimichanga wrote:I think biggest difference for me would be cognitive complications/arrhythmia on low fat diet that Dr F talks about. They did not touch this subject. Rest are all mundane differences.


I keep digesting and mulling Dr. F's info, synthesizing it with Dr. M's. Trying to get to the crux of it. In doing this, it occurred to me that Dr. F's might be lower fat that Dr. M's (?). Aside from the nuts/seeds, where's the fat? This weekend is the first I've heard about arrhythmias and low fat. Hmmm . . . how low is too low? Salad-based diet seems quite low fat. Also, in his talk, Dr. F said that most of the fat in beans is not absorbed (complicated explanation). Now I wonder when low fat = arrhythmias . . .
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Re: ASW Weekend Update

Postby Acura » Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:27 am

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Last edited by Acura on Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ASW Weekend Update

Postby LauraA » Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:34 am

ETeSelle wrote:I'm w/ Gramma Jackie--why can't Dr. McD have Advanced Study Weekends someplace OTHER than Santa Rosa?? He would reach a LOT more people if he spread out some. It's just way too expensive for me to go to CA and unfortunately, it's just really unlikely to happen. Now ATLANTA I could get behind!


Oh my gosh yes! Atlanta! I'm 4 hours from there, and would love it!! Maybe he would consider it, because as it is now, many people attend several times, and others really can't get there. Take care, LauraA
Take care, LauraA

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Re: ASW Weekend Update

Postby ETeSelle » Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:35 am

What is that quote from? Did he say that when he was AT the ASW??
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Re: ASW Weekend Update

Postby Acura » Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:43 am

ETeSelle wrote:What is that quote from? Did he say that when he was AT the ASW??


Not at the ASW but was made very recently. I'm not sure where the white rice comes from. White potato is what it is. White anything concerning food is taboo these days so I want to make that is not distorted.
Last edited by Acura on Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ASW Weekend Update

Postby ETeSelle » Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:46 am

You really should NOT quote someone without providing a link. WHERE did he say it?? Please provide the link and update your post to show where it came from.
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Weight now: 124 (20.0 BMI)
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Re: ASW Weekend Update

Postby Jack19 » Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:41 am

All you Americans need to stop whining about how Dr M wont leave CA I think - you guys dont have an OCEAN seperating you like some of us do!
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Re: ASW Weekend Update

Postby patty » Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:44 am

BarbG wrote:
Chimichanga wrote:I think biggest difference for me would be cognitive complications/arrhythmia on low fat diet that Dr F talks about. They did not touch this subject. Rest are all mundane differences.


I keep digesting and mulling Dr. F's info, synthesizing it with Dr. M's. Trying to get to the crux of it. In doing this, it occurred to me that Dr. F's might be lower fat that Dr. M's (?). Aside from the nuts/seeds, where's the fat? This weekend is the first I've heard about arrhythmias and low fat. Hmmm . . . how low is too low? Salad-based diet seems quite low fat. Also, in his talk, Dr. F said that most of the fat in beans is not absorbed (complicated explanation). Now I wonder when low fat = arrhythmias . . .


The members were able to hear two of the lectures online from the 2010 Health Getaway... he shared about the fat of the bean, which was great and about the importance of onions and mushrooms being preventive of cancer.

The set of lectures are now being marketed:
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Aloha, patty

If I remember correctly half of the fat of the bean is broken down in the colon. It lines the walls of the colon to form soft stools. So half of the calories is released in the digestive system. Hope this help if not sorry.. I am not the sharpest tool in the shed. I just know I get enough fat from the low calorie dense foods.. and beans work, though I stay away from tofu.
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Re: ASW Weekend Update

Postby Jack19 » Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:13 am

[quote="Jack19"]All you Americans need to stop whining about how Dr M wont leave CA I think - you guys dont have an OCEAN seperating you like some of us do![/quot

Just curious. Anyone at the ASW from outside the US? Anyone from UK?
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Re: ASW Weekend Update

Postby BarbG » Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:23 am

A couple people from Hawaii, not outside the U.S. but across an ocean!

Crossing an ocean or a continent the size of an ocean, all the same.
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Re: ASW Weekend Update

Postby Katydid » Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:37 am

I'm in Michigan, and I think the closest I'm going to come is the Engine 2:Farms2Forks immersions. They're having one in Chicago this summer, and the bus or train from Detroit to Chicago is dirt cheap. Really thinking of going:

http://www.farms2forks.com/find-an-immersion/

Kate
This diet can save your life - it saved mine! Read my story at:
http://www.drmcdougall.com/stars/cathy_stewart.htm
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Re: ASW Weekend Update

Postby Adrienne » Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:06 pm

How can Dr McD have the ASW anywhere other than Santa Rosa? His daughter - who helps out at every ASW - is there as well as all of his staff. In addition the kitchen staff at the Flamingo is well-trained at preparing McDougall food. It is not so simple to just plan to have entire weekend somewhere else. The online option is offered for those who cannot attend. It is well worth the $150.

As for the topic of arrhythmias here are some of Jeff's comments which Dr McD likely agrees with:

A low level of essential fats (not total fat) can lead to heart arrhythmias, heart disease and sudden death, but the cure for that is not a high fat diet, or adding fat that does not have the essential fats. As I showed, most all nuts and seeds are actually very low in essential fats. So, if the problem is essential fats, you do nothing to fix it by adding foods that are high fat or low fat, if they do not have essential fats. In fact, higher fat diets (though probably typical American higher fat diets) are a risk factor for heart arrhythmias. If you go the American Heart Association website and look up heart arrhythmias, the recommended advice is a "low fat" diet. This is the same with all other national health organizations.

It is true that Dr Ornish did add in fish oil to his program. He recommends around 2-4 grams a day which is actually over what was used in the studies and over the national recommendations, which is 1 gram. However, if you take the 10% Ornish diet and add in 4 grams of fish oil, the diet is still around 10% fat, no more than 11%. So, yes, Dr Ornish realized a potential problem (lack of essential fats) and fixed it with the appropriate solution (adding in essential fats). Doing it though, through fish oil is not necessary as in the Lyon Heart trial they did it with the addition of plant based omega 3s.

But Dr Ornish isn't recommending a high fat diet now for his reversal diet, he just recommended adding in a few grams of essential fats.

Over 100,000 people have gone through the Pritikin Program and they have published the results in over 120 articles in the leading medical journals. Their diet for most of the original studies for the first 15-20 years and over 75 of those studies was below 10%. There was no increased risk or occurrence of arrhythmia's, heart disease or sudden death. Just the opposite. They have slightly modified their guidelines and the diet is now < 15% fat. However, the do not use any avocados, nuts, seeds, or oils. They do allow 3 small servings of fish a week for those who want it. The original program served only one 3 oz serving a week.

The Tarahumara & Pima Indians in Mexico, the long lived Okinawans, and the traditional Hawaiian diets are all under 12% fat, some under 10% fat, and have been well studied with many published articles. They are all considered cardio-protective and heart disease is virtually unknown amongst these populations

Now, IMHO, the reason Dr Ornish may have seen this problem in some of those following the Ornish diet, but not in these native populations, is not because the recommended diet was lacking but because many people who followed his diet (and other low fat diets) did so by focusing on all those low fat foods that were highly processed and refined packaged low fat high carb foods and food products and not whole plant foods. The native populations had no refined processed foods, and had to eat mostly whole natural plant foods. In fact, 90% of the calories in the Tarahumara diet comes from just beans and corn.

If the problem is lack of fat, then fix it with added fat. But that is not the problem.

If the problem is lack of essential fat, then fix it with added essential fat. But just adding fat, without essential fats, does not solve this. And, you do not have to add lots of fat to add essential fats.

So, how does adding high fat nuts, that are low in essential fats, fix an essential fat problem?


viewtopic.php?f=22&t=6067&p=41881

IMO Dr F is just grasping at straws and looking for reasons to justify his personal preference for higher amounts of nuts.
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