ASW Weekend Update

For those questions and discussions on the McDougall program that don’t seem to fit in any other forum.

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Re: ASW Weekend Update

Postby BarbG » Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:54 am

P.S.
As I'm not familiar with Dr. Fuhrman at all, I might not be clear about his list of what to eat every day. I'm not sure if it's his all purpose food recommendations or a specific diet ("greens & beans"). Maybe someone else knows.
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Re: ASW Weekend Update

Postby f1jim » Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:02 am

For those coming in from out of the area it might be easier to combine it with a bit of vacation time. It's in the wine country and there is a lot to do and enjoy so I would wrap vacation into the weekend and see it as part of a larger package. Between the wineries, the redwoods, and S.F. so close it would make for a great trip. I haven't found anyone that regretted coming to one of these events. At least for 3 days you wont have to worry about what to eat!
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Re: ASW Weekend Update

Postby Lani Muelrath » Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:20 am

Hey Everyone! On the list for Sept '12:

Joseph Keon, Whitewash: The Disturbing Truth About Cow's Milk and Your Health
Michael Klaper
Mystery guest named "Gabe" coming on board with the truth about all the 'paleo' talk. Honest, we just got a first name.
William Clifford Roberts, NIH / American Journal of Cardiology
Keith Block, cancer specialist

As Doc McD said, these weekends just keep getting better and better and when one wraps, we always say "that was THE best ever!"

There's never a dull moment. Not a boring moment anywhere, but then I'm such a geek for this stuff! :mrgreen:

Thanks Jim for the fine summations, such a treat to catch up with you and Terri!

Image

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Re: ASW Weekend Update

Postby LauraA » Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:01 pm

I would love to be at one of the weekends in person. I signed up once, and planned to combine it with a trip to visit my daughter and her family on the west coast. Then, my time to visit them changed. I really hope that I can work it out for Sept 2012. I go to the west coast twice a year, so we'll see!
As far as the debate, and the differences in the two doctors, I think that a salad before lunch and dinner is a great idea. I don't feel that I eat enough raw veggies and salads, except maybe in the summer. I can't really add any nuts, however, because that would be very addictive for me. I also love more starch than just the beans. I'd say I'm still 100% McDougall, and have been reminded by Fuhrman to include more salads and be sure to include lots of green/yellow veggies. Thanks again for all of the information. Take care, LauraA
Take care, LauraA

"ON PLAN, AND PLANNING TO STAY THAT WAY!"
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Re: ASW Weekend Update

Postby Adrienne » Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:28 pm

That is Joseph Keon and he wrote a fantastic book called Whitewash about dairy. I highly recommend it for those who have not read it. If you thought The China Study had a lot of citations at the end wait until you read Dr Keon's book!!As for the paleo guy I think someone here posted a link to the youtube videos not too long ago.

I am very much enjoying watching all the lectures online. I agree with what all of you have said about Melanie Joy - wow!!!

I really enjoyed both of Dr Welch's lectures - they were very informative and not too difficult to comprehend.

I loved the Steve Jobs lecture- 40 minutes short and to the point. It was similar to the newsletter but better. I also really liked Dr M's new version of TSS lecture which was shorter and had some newer info.

Kathy Freston was great as well. I enjoyed the interview style of the presentation. I have to say though, I dont get why Dr M was so insistent that she get him on Oprah (he asked her 3 times!!!). I'm not sure if Dr M knows this but Oprah does not have her show on CBS anymore and the ratings on OWN are not good at all, last I heard. IMO he would be far better off going on Anderson Cooper (daytime or CNN show), The View, GMA or The Today Show to promote TSS. Oprah does not have the same influence anymore now that she is off CBS.

As for the debate, I enjoyed it but would have liked it if Dr McD specifically addressed the negative consequences of DHA/EFA supplementation (immune suppression, cholesterol increase, oxidative damage) like he did with Dr Vogel in their discussion at the last ASW and as he did at the end of The Starch Solution lecture linked at the top, as opposed to simply stating they are like "a drug." It would have been interesting to hear Dr F's response. Also I would have liked more of the questions asked in Jeff's forum to have been answered - those were some great questions particularly the one about how adding all the nuts distorts the omega 6 to 3 ratio, furthering the need for more DHA. And I didn't appreciate the comment Dr F made to Scott at the end - I thought that was totally inappropriate! Good for Scott for losing 100 pounds so far!!

Finally while watching Dr F's first lecture I looked up a couple of studies he cited and here is what found:

Dr F, in his slides/lecture, said that in a 71 country study sunshine, beans, onions and soybeans were found to be protective of prostate cancer.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16678047

But look at the actual study and it says:

The consumption of cereal grains and rice, in particular, correlated strongly with decreasing prostate cancer mortality.


He left that part out!! This is not the first time he has washed over the beneficial effects of grains (he often cites the health stats of Asian countries but forgets to mention they live on - or lived on - rice-based diets).

I did though enjoy that lecture though, overall. I have a few more to watch but definitely one of the best ASW's, except for the fact that Jeff was not there.
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Re: ASW Weekend Update

Postby BarbG » Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:47 pm

Adrienne wrote: I loved the Steve Jobs lecture- 40 minutes short and to the point. It was similar to the newsletter but better.



This is what I said to Dr. McDougall. The talk had more impact on me than the newsletter. It was so well done, and the point was unmistakably clear.

I liked the interview style with Kathy Freston too. And, I also like Dr. McDougall's persistence, so his asking three times was just fine. His persistence is how he got Dr. Welch. :)
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Re: ASW Weekend Update

Postby Adrienne » Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:22 pm

I finished watching Dr F's second lecture which I also enjoyed. I have to say though I still do not understand about true hunger being felt in the throat. I still feel it in the stomach though without the symptoms I had when eating animal foods.

I just wanted to comment on one of the studies he cited, the pooled of analysis that showed a dose response effect of nut consumption (up to 2.4oz) and LDL-lowering.

Here is the study:

http://archinte.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/170/9/821

Quotes from the abstract:
The effects of nut consumption were significantly modified by LDL-C, body mass index, and diet type: the lipid-lowering effects of nut consumption were greatest among subjects with high baseline LDL-C and with low body mass index and among those consuming Western diets.

Full text:
As expected, nut consumption led to more pronounced reduction of TC and LDL-C compared with a Western diet vs Mediterranean or low-fat diet. Greater cholesterol-lowering effect is found when nuts replace saturated fat than when olive oil or carbohydrates are replaced. This finding has important clinical and public health applications. For patients with dyslipidemia and for the general population consuming a Western diet, the incorporation of nuts into their daily diet will result in greater improvement of blood lipid levels than for individuals already following a healthy Mediterranean or low-fat diet.

In other words when the 2.4 oz of nuts replaced unhealthy food LDL went down. But no where does this study imply that a person already eating a healthy low-fat plant-based diet would achieve an even lower LDL if they added in nuts.

I am sure Jeff talked about this in his thorough analysis.

Also I wish Dr M and Dr F could have debated the whole idea that diets too low in fat cause arrhythmias. Dr F has been saying that for years but I have never heard Dr M talk about that, though I have read Jeff's comments on the topic in his forum.
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Re: ASW Weekend Update

Postby Lacey » Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:51 pm

I am really enjoying the comments here from those who were able to attend. I am watching it online but it is taking a while to get through all of it. I am finding myself to be quite jealous every time the audence is dismissed to eat! The food was so amazing at the ten-day. It was the first vacation I have ever been on where I was able to just enjoy all of the food without having to worry about how it was prepared or what was in it. I hope to go to an ASW soon. In the meantime I am very happy that it is available to watch online. Thanks to all who are sharing their comments!
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Re: ASW Weekend Update

Postby moonwatcher » Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:14 pm

Thank you, Jim, Lani, and everyone else for all this great feedback about the ASW.

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Re: ASW Weekend Update

Postby Gramma Jackie » Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:54 am

didi wrote:It is doubtful that Paula Dean will spend any time McDougalling at the center. She might have to give up Victoza. To tell you the truth, I don't think I could give up six million dollars.

Didi


If I had to choose between a $6 million dollar contract or my health, I would choose health. What good is money if you are sick or on death's door? What a lot of people don't realize is that some drugs can be just as bad as the disease they are suppose to treat. I advocated for my husband's doctor to get him off Lipitor for high cholesterol and I am so glad I did, because he gave a urine specimin that same visit to the doctor and it showed his kidney function had decreased. That is a result of the Lipitor. Paula Deen should not choose drugs over diet, much less money over health.
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Re: ASW Weekend Update

Postby patty » Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:49 am

Mahalo Adrienne, for spotlighting the differences between Dr. McDougall's program and Dr. Fuhrman's.

We are so Blessed with Dr. McDougall's generosity, true wealth/satiety is the magnet of emptiness.

Aloha, patty
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Re: ASW Weekend Update

Postby Gramma Jackie » Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:40 am

Adrienne wrote:
I didn't appreciate the comment Dr F made to Scott at the end - I thought that was totally inappropriate!


Care to share exactly what Dr. Fuhrman said? I have read elsewhere that Dr. Fuhrman singled a person out and joked in front of the entire audience about them being overweight. How embarassing for the person he made fun of. Not very professional on the part of Dr. Fuhrman in my opinion.
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Re: ASW Weekend Update

Postby f1jim » Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:27 am

The comment was made to the cameraman some will recognize as being at all these events. He usually asks questions at each event, as well. Dr. Fuhrman noted that this person has obviously been unsuccessful of late in getting to his ideal weight. It was accompanied by a group sigh at the time. I think Dr. Fuhrman was emphasizing the need to act swiftly to remove the excess weight but it did come off as a bit shocking. The other side of the equation is he is being asked by someone for his professional opinion and he got it! The cameraman has struggled with his weight for a long time. I don't think he was trying to insult the man but it did come off that way to many expecting a more laid back response. Most of the doctors that work with these issues have a reputation for bluntness and candor. You have to set your personal feelings aside if you want an honest response from them. Some are better than others at disarming the questioner. The best I have seen was probably Dr. Bernard. He could smooze anyone with advice and appear to be your best friend.
It's probably not good to express an opinion if you didn't see or hear the comment in the context of the situation. That usually means everything to the comment.
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Re: ASW Weekend Update

Postby Gramma Jackie » Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:54 am

f1jim wrote:The comment was made to the cameraman some will recognize as being at all these events. He usually asks questions at each event, as well. Dr. Fuhrman noted that this person has obviously been unsuccessful of late in getting to his ideal weight. It was accompanied by a group sigh at the time. I think Dr. Fuhrman was emphasizing the need to act swiftly to remove the excess weight but it did come off as a bit shocking. The other side of the equation is he is being asked by someone for his professional opinion and he got it! The cameraman has struggled with his weight for a long time. I don't think he was trying to insult the man but it did come off that way to many expecting a more laid back response. Most of the doctors that work with these issues have a reputation for bluntness and candor. You have to set your personal feelings aside if you want an honest response from them. Some are better than others at disarming the questioner. The best I have seen was probably Dr. Bernard. He could smooze anyone with advice and appear to be your best friend.
It's probably not good to express an opinion if you didn't see or hear the comment in the context of the situation. That usually means everything to the comment.
f1jim


I first read it on Lindsay Nixon's (The Happy Herbivore) blog. She was, as you know, a guest presenter at the event. I would still like to know Dr. Fuhrman's words.
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Re: ASW Weekend Update

Postby f1jim » Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:05 am

Exactly, before offering an opinion about whether it was appropriate we would need to hear both the question asked and the response to know. Without knowing that it's in poor taste to offer an opinion, If anyone wishes to call it up and quote please feel free. Although, even that doesn't really convey the full package of inflection and tone. I did detect a bit of sarcasm in the tone if memory serves.
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