Pathogenesis Of Male Pattern Baldness & The Solutions.

For those questions and discussions on the McDougall program that don’t seem to fit in any other forum.

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Re: Pathogenesis Of Male Pattern Baldness & The Solutions.

Postby rickfm » Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:21 pm

Perhaps we can get the other thread started by gmackster merged with this one, since Dr. McDougall replied there.

I got the Glycolic Acid 35% from here, as suggested by misterE in another thread on this subject. I got the 30 ml bottle. It's deceptively small, a little goes a long way. I used it for at least four applications and it's not quite half gone. So, with weekly use, it would last a couple months.

I'm going to start this again tonight. See if I can't make it a Sunday routine and get some results.
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Re: Pathogenesis Of Male Pattern Baldness & The Solutions.

Postby gmackster » Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:53 pm

rickfm wrote:Perhaps we can get the other thread started by gmackster merged with this one, since Dr. McDougall replied there.

I got the Glycolic Acid 35% from here, as suggested by misterE in another thread on this subject. I got the 30 ml bottle. It's deceptively small, a little goes a long way. I used it for at least four applications and it's not quite half gone. So, with weekly use, it would last a couple months.

I'm going to start this again tonight. See if I can't make it a Sunday routine and get some results.


I apologize for starting another thread. I should have been more careful.

Has anyone tried Nioxin? Its not natural, but the reviews seem positive on it. I just bought Prairie Natural's Hair Force today. We'll see if it changes anything.



As for the Glycolic Acid how often should one use it? Im wearing of putting anything on my hair that has 'Acid' in the title.
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Re: Pathogenesis Of Male Pattern Baldness & The Solutions.

Postby rickfm » Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:14 pm

You need to do a test on a spot like your forearm to see if you react to it. Unfortunately, you have to buy some to test it. :?

I'm pretty sure the instructions say use once a week. I think the application time is 8 minutes. MisterE goes beyond the recommended application time by leaving it on over night. I leave it on for about a half hour. That's more than enough "burn" for me.
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Re: Pathogenesis Of Male Pattern Baldness & The Solutions.

Postby gmackster » Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:17 pm

rickfm wrote:You need to do a test on a spot like your forearm to see if you react to it. Unfortunately, you have to buy some to test it. :?

I'm pretty sure the instructions say use once a week. I think the application time is 8 minutes. MisterE goes beyond the recommended application time by leaving it on over night. I leave it on for about a half hour. That's more than enough "burn" for me.


Thanks for the info. Now MisterE also suggests shaving your head. Have you gone that far? Im very reluctant to shave my head... I wonder if it will work with my short hair?
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Re: Pathogenesis Of Male Pattern Baldness & The Solutions.

Postby rickfm » Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:29 pm

I did the first time. Now I just buzz it real close. I cut my own hair using the lowest attachment on my clippers, anyhow. I'm only interested in treating the forward portion of my head, so I don't see the point in doing the entire area.

And since misterE hasn't provided before and after pictures, I am giving him the benefit of the doubt and consider myself a guinea pig in this endeavor.
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Re: Pathogenesis Of Male Pattern Baldness & The Solutions.

Postby John McDougall » Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:10 am

Good work, MisterE

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Re: Pathogenesis Of Male Pattern Baldness & The Solutions.

Postby blueyesvegan » Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:33 am

misterE,
in your opinion, why does male baldness affect only some zones of the scalp? If your pathogenetic hypothesis is right, baldness should affect all the hair.
Thanks in advance.
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Re: Pathogenesis Of Male Pattern Baldness & The Solutions.

Postby misterE » Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:46 pm

Gmackster—I came up with this conclusion by personal observation and reading many studies. Some of the most influential studies done on this subject are from researchers Bodo Melnik and Loren Cordain. Bodo Melnik believes dairy-products and excess protein are the driving causes of acne (baldness) while Loren Cordain believes excess sugar and high glycemic-load carbohydrates (processed-foods) are the main factor. They both make great recommendations (avoiding dairy, vegetable-oils, processed-food), but Loren Cordain promotes a meat-based diet (paleo-diet).

Hyperinsulinemia, induced by fatty-acids and fructose causes an excessive amount of IGF-1 to stimulate growth. This growth could be cancer, bones, or skin-cells. Foods high in protein (like milk, cheese, eggs and meat) also stimulate excessive amount of IGF-1, which then causes unregulated cell proliferation. As mentioned in the opening-post, excessive IGF-1 can cause excessive (skin cell) growth in the hair-follicles, leading to blockage and obstruction of hair growth.

Ketoconazole-shampoo (Nizoral) might be of benefit for multiple reasons. It has been shown to decrease sebum and the size of the sebaceous-glands, reduce inflammation, increase tissue concentrations of vitamin-d and vitamin-a (both vitamins regulate skin-cell proliferation), and has a direct inhibitory effect of keratinocytes.

The reason I recommend shaving the head is to let the exfoliant (glycolic-acid, TCA, retinoids, etc) penetrate the scalp better. Having hair might impede the absorption of the acid/retinoid.


Blueyesvegan—The reason why I believe the top of the head is more susceptible, is because the top of the head has more sebaceous-glands than the sides. And also, the sides of the head get more day-to-day exfoliation, like when you are sleeping and rolling your head from side to side on your pillow.
Last edited by misterE on Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pathogenesis Of Male Pattern Baldness & The Solutions.

Postby misterE » Fri Aug 10, 2012 5:11 pm

Also, I have switched from glycolic-acid to TCA-50%. This is the harshest peel there is. It is used for removing tattoos! The reason I switched was because I felt the glycolic-acid wasn’t penetrating deep enough. However, I don’t recommend people new to peels, to try TCA-50 right away. Start with a low concentration peel (like glycolic-acid) and work your way up (as needed). With TCA-50, you get instant stinging and frosting. Frosting is the coagulation of proteins. The sting from TCA-50 is horrendous and you can only tolerated it for a few seconds. The frosting dissipates after a few minuets and the skin peels about 3 days later. I haven’t noticed any negative effects from the TCA-50 in regards to skin quality or hair quality. But I must suggest not to peel the skin yourself… wait for it to peel when it is ready to peel.
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Re: Pathogenesis Of Male Pattern Baldness & The Solutions.

Postby gmackster » Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:53 pm

misterE wrote:Gmackster—I
The reason I recommend shaving the head is to let the exfoliant (glycolic-acid, TCA, retinoids, etc) penetrate the scalp better. Having hair might impede the absorption of the acid/retinoid.


I can't imagine myself bald for 3 months...(although doing nothing will result in it anyways). I guess im just in denial.

If I soak my head in the Glycolic-Acid, literally just pour it on.....would that not help absorption?

Also, is there any danger to existing hair by putting the acid on?

I just ordered the 35% peel from http://www.skinlaboratory.com/glycolic-acid-35

Im going to try it on a localized area and see if anything re-grows
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Re: Pathogenesis Of Male Pattern Baldness & The Solutions.

Postby Conz » Sun Aug 12, 2012 3:39 am

didi wrote:So what do you suggest for the ladies, misterE?

didi



Go see a specialist at a hair loss clinic.
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Re: Pathogenesis Of Male Pattern Baldness & The Solutions.

Postby Conz » Sun Aug 12, 2012 3:45 am

gmackster wrote:
rickfm wrote:You need to do a test on a spot like your forearm to see if you react to it. Unfortunately, you have to buy some to test it. :?

I'm pretty sure the instructions say use once a week. I think the application time is 8 minutes. MisterE goes beyond the recommended application time by leaving it on over night. I leave it on for about a half hour. That's more than enough "burn" for me.


Thanks for the info. Now MisterE also suggests shaving your head. Have you gone that far? Im very reluctant to shave my head... I wonder if it will work with my short hair?


if the insturctions dont say to shave your hair then dont. I use a hair loss treatment (minoxidil) without having short hair and it works.

And as a low fat vegan i still managed to lose my hair.... so diet doesnt cause it.
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Re: Pathogenesis Of Male Pattern Baldness & The Solutions.

Postby ahrat » Sun Aug 12, 2012 6:16 am

Interesting. I remember my father talking to a vendor in Florida who was an immigrant from Pakistan. He told how as soon as he arrived in America and started eating all the fast food instead of lots of fresh fruits and vegetables and very little meat his hair started falling out.
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Re: Pathogenesis Of Male Pattern Baldness & The Solutions.

Postby rickfm » Sun Aug 12, 2012 9:32 am

gmackster wrote:If I soak my head in the Glycolic-Acid, literally just pour it on.....would that not help absorption?

I would suggest you not do that. It would be a waste for one thing, plus the risk of getting it where it doesn't need to be. The stuff burns, use it lightly, do a couple layers if you want. I happen to have a fan brush (from an art class I took years ago) that I use for application. Gauze pads or cotton balls would work, I would think.

Also, is there any danger to existing hair by putting the acid on?

No. The hair I have along my hairline continues to grow. It's impossible to avoid getting on existing hair if you're trying to get good coverage.

Im going to try it on a localized area and see if anything re-grows

Remember to try a small patch of other skin first, like under your forearm, to test for reaction before putting it on the more sensitive skin of your scalp. If you're going to use it, might as well just treat the entire area from the start. Some areas might respond better than others.

And take my suggestions for what they're worth. I only have experience in applying the stuff, not actually having any hair regrowth. I'm expecting it to take a couple months, with weekly application, before noticing anything... if it works. I remain skeptical.

I have a before photo. Another seven weeks from now, if I can stick with it, I'll post before and after photos and let you guys decide if anything happened.
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Re: Pathogenesis Of Male Pattern Baldness & The Solutions.

Postby tanawana » Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:58 am

This approach sounds like it's more for Regrowing Hair if I got it right, but how can this help to Maintain Existing Hair I wonder, or if it really does?? Love to be more proactive on keeping what I have.
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