Cultural stigmas against the McDougall lifestyle

[vanita324]

Hello everyone. First of all, I would like to applaud everyone who is making a conscious effort to change their lifestyle and habits for a healthier new you!
I have been reading the testimonies of Star McDougallers and observed through pictures that most of the people who become sold on this way of life are Caucasian people of a middle age or older age. As a biracial African American/Hispanic woman of 23, I wonder why there are not more people from my ethnic groups and age group who are aware of this lifestyle. African Americans and Hispanics have disproportionately higher percentages of all chronic diseases compared to their Caucasian counterparts, and young people (lets say people ages 18-30, living on their own and able to cook for themselves) are very unhealthy. I would think this lifestyle would catch on like wild fire. Many of my friends have diabetes, are obese, have complications in pregnancy and giving birth, and/or complain of aches and pains that people our age should not have. I shared with my family and friends that I was going to attempt to change my eating habits and I was teased incessantly. Not only was the teasing stemming from a strong belief in the SAD, but also, culturally it was seen as disrespectful and even wasteful to my family and friends. African American and Hispanics (my family is Cuban) believe strongly in our fried foods (soul food) and our meats and cheeses. Everything is covered in butter and salt and usually at one time had at least a hoof or a beak or something:) Eating is not only a time for catching up with the family, it is seen as an act of love to eat what a loved one has taken time to prepare for you. There was a time when cooking for loved ones was all my ancestors could do, and they did it with relish. Those traditions have been passed down and are still strongly rooted in my community. So for me to "turn my nose up at this food that we have been making for centuries and nobody has ever complained from it killing them" as my mother puts it, I am disrespecting my culture in a way. My mother argues that everything gives you cancer, you might as well eat what you want. This is the attitude of most of my family and friends as well.
Reading through this web site, I am under the impression that there is a whole side of America that is under represented in the healthful eating revolution. You who are reading this- why do you think this is? Is it just me, or is there an ethnic/cultural stigma attached to this way of life on top of the prejudice that many Americans have against not eating meat?
I am going to do a project on this for a sociology class I am taking. I would appreciate any feed back. And if there is anyone on here who can identify with my example, either in ethnicity or age, please feel free to share. It is a really interesting subject. Thanks:)

[hope101]

Hi, vanita, and welcome. I'm caucasian and can't offer any person knowledge that will help you, but I do recall this having been discussed a time or two in the past. Here are a few posts that might help you:

http://www.drmcdougall.com/forums/searc ... de=results

Good luck with your project.

[luvoatmeal]

Hi vanita,

I have had similar experiences. I used to go to a church that had a high percentage of Fillipino, Black, and Mexican families. I tried to share the McDougall diet with two ladies that I consider friends. One is black, the other is Puerto Rican. They both said that they have always eaten meat and just could not picture life without it. They also said their families would not want to eat the McDougall way. Both have some serious health issues, and both are overweight - my black friend is probably well over a 100 lbs. overweight and is on high blood pressure medication.

They were not rude towards me in any way, but just completely un-interested, even after reading books by Dr. McD that I loaned them.
I really do think there is a very strong ingrained cultural thing going on when it comes to food choices.

I think it will be a very interesting topic for you to study and learn more about, and I hope you'll continue to share your insights with us.

[Clary]

Hi, vanita, and welcome. I'm caucasian and can't offer any person knowledge that will help you, but I do recall this having been discussed a time or two in the past. Here are a few posts that might help you:

http://www.drmcdougall.com/forums/searc ... de=results

Good luck with your project.

Hi Hope--
Check out your link. It won't open to any posts on my computer.

[hope101]

Oh, too bad. Thought it would show up. Anyway, just hit the search button immediately above and type in "African-American" as the top left search term.

[f1jim]

With all due respect, The first Star McDougaller on the page is me. I too am bi-racial. I am 1/2 white and 1/2 Hispanic. At 23 years old I didn't have health as a priority in my life. It should have been. That was the age I was first diagnosed with high blood pressure. Aspirin took care of the shooting pains in my neck up to my head till the pressure got so high I had to seek a doctor and meds. The meds did the trick and I went on with my life for almost 30 more years before the chest pains drove me back to the doctor.
I am not sure it's a matter of race other than the fact that those of color are usually at the top of the list for Western diseases. But even my white friends at 23 didn't give much thought to health. I am sure the fact that junk food is cheap food is a factor. You buy what you can afford. Supermarkets with produce sections are scarce in the inner cities.
My family is beset with heart problems, strokes, high blood pressure, diabetes, and high cholesterol and the attendant obesity. Mostly on the Mexican side. Mother, aunts, uncles, cousins, you name it. Everyone eats like I did. The typical American diet is what they worked hard to achieve! And now you want to take it away from us? In my family, beans rice and corn by themself is peasant food. My grandparents and even parents believed the more meat, cheese and pastries on the table, the higher up on the social ladder you had climbed. It will take a few generations to turn this thinking around. It's already happening. Not nearly fast enough. I heard Dr. McDougall address this issue at the 3 day nutrition weekend I attended. He is aware and concerned. It was his exposure to Asian immigrants in Hawaii that fueled his interest in diet and lifestyle.
The diet and lifestyle movement needs young leaders of color to carry the mantle to their respective communities. We have the most to gain. Thanks for bringing this up.
f1jim

[vanita324]

Thank you everyone for responding. Yes, f1jim, what you said about plain rice and beans being peasant food is so true. The fact that my family can eat steak or pork ( a favorite in Cuban cuisine) everyday and have plenty of "rich" foods to eat from the grocery store is a matter of pride to my Cuban father. In his native country, living off of rations barely allowed him to eat meat once a month he used to tell me, if he ate at all. And now, I am choosing not to eat meat. "Not even some butter" my abuela said to me earlier this week? "You are going to get too skinny mija" She had a look of horror as she said this. I can see why she would be so aghast. A few decades after leaving Cuba she sees her grand daughter refusing meat when she had to scrounge to feed her children.
And yes, luvoatmeal, the way that people of color eat is deeply engrained in our culture and history. i think that the fact that many people of color were in poverty for so long did not afford us the opportunity to be able to buy fresh produce and learn healthy ways of eating. Combining that with the desire to show how successful we are, eating the food of the white middle and upper classes allows people of color to feel like we have "made it" as well. even now, as f1jim said, it is more prudent to a poor mother in the inner city to buy her children Cheetos and Spaghetti O's for dinner than being able to find veggies for a salad and make whole grain pasta.
Trying to eat this way as caused my friends and family to label me as trying to be "white." I find that amusing, but more about that on a later date.
I am going to keep researching this topic and keep you all updated.

[funcrunch]

Thanks for posting this. I am biracial as well: 1/2 black and 1/2 white. I was about your age when I first became vegetarian. Interestingly, my mother's - black - side of the family had fewer problems with it than my father's - white Jewish - side. I grew up eating SAD, but my mother after moving out on her own based her diet on foods like sweet potatoes, broccoli, and shredded wheat (with milk, unfortunately - she won't give it up even though she's lactose-intolerant, she just buys expensive Lactaid). My father still eats meat and his cholesterol would be through the roof without meds, but he's very skinny and gets lots of exercise so probably doesn't think he needs to change his diet.

At the Berkeley Farmer's Market once I saw a beautiful black man with long dreadlocks selling "vegan soul food". While it probably had too much fat to be McD-legal, that is still so much better than frying greens in bacon drippings (yuck).

There is so much healthy ethnic food to be had, but every culture does seem to have this stigma of poverty attached to a meat-free diet. I remember attending a Chinese friend's wedding, and at the dinner banquet virtually every dish contained meat. He did ask if I wanted to sit at the "vegetarian table" but since none of my friends would be there I opted not to. I was told by someone that it was a mark of status to be able to serve seven courses of meat to a room full of 300 people. Old values die hard...

[luvoatmeal]

Hi again everyone -

I wanted to clarify something that I didn't really communicate well in my first post. One thing both ladies said to me was that they were raised eating the way they do and that this is how they show their love to their parents and grandparents - by continuing the traditional way of preparing foods, and they wanted to pass that tradition to their kids.

My Puerto Rican friend especially spoke with such fondness about certain cultural foods that she loved - lots of fried meats if I remember correctly.

Another couple in our church that was interesting was a black man (former Marine Corp. cook) who married a lady from the Fillipines. She made alot of white rice and veggies, but he did most of the cooking and made alot of BBQ pork and beef. He supervised and organized most of the potlucks at our church, and they always had lots of meat, overcooked canned vegetables, and mac and cheese as a side instead of potatoes.

[toadfood]

At the Berkeley Farmer's Market once I saw a beautiful black man with long dreadlocks selling "vegan soul food". While it probably had too much fat to be McD-legal, that is still so much better than frying greens in bacon drippings (yuck).

You probably know that many Rastafarians are vegan or close to vegan, and/or are very interested in raw foods/whole foods ("Ital"). I live in a city with a large black population, and our one vegan restaurant is owned by a black woman. She runs an annual "raw food challenge," and a big sign in the window of her restaurant says "Eat More Kale!" I often see black people with long dreadlocks at the health food store in my neighborhood. Since Rastafari was started by black people and is Afrocentric, I'm assuming no one accuses them of acting white, but I can't know for sure. And of course only a small minority of American black people are Rastafari.

[funcrunch]

I live in a city with a large black population, and our one vegan restaurant is owned by a black woman.

Are you in Baltimore? What/where is the vegan restaurant? I was there a couple of months ago and we had a good brunch at One World Café, and later a most excellent dinner at Great Sage in Clarksville...

[toadfood]

Are you in Baltimore? What/where is the vegan restaurant? I was there a couple of months ago and we had a good brunch at One World Café, and later a most excellent dinner at Great Sage in Clarksville...

Yes, I'm in Baltimore. The vegan restaurant is called The Yabba Pot: http://www.theyabbapotcafe.com/theyabbapotcafe.html

I've actually only been there once, for lunch. It is not wheelchair accessible, and my partner uses a wheelchair. I tend not to want to go places where she isn't welcome, even if she's not with me. I've been to One World Cafe for brunch, and Great Sage is amazing -- that's our special occasion restaurant!

[Faith in DC]

Vanita
I think this is so wonderful of you to take on all of this. You may be on your way to changing old beliefs or at least a few people's health. I know it's hard.

I think all cultures have a connection of how important meals are with the family and how to cook the dishes. I had trouble with my Mother, really a lot of trouble, when it came to cooking and refusing to eat such and such because, no chicken broth isn't vegetarian. With reading and watching she slowly started to change, which made my life so much easier, but every once in a while the old favorites come out.

Anyway, here in DC the Vegetarian Society of DC was doing nutritional lectures to people of color. The clases were well received but the grant I believe ran out. It wasn't cheap. The series was like 6 classes. It's a slow process, but I'd love to see Hispanics and African Americans start slowly making progress to a more healthful way. If nothing else but to try dishes they come up with.

[CarolWL]

Here in Chicago, for at least 20 years that I know of, we've had Soul Vegetarian East, a vegan restaurant on the South Side, owned and run by African-Americans whose specialty is southern American cooking. They're an interesting group. The restaurant used to be run by the African Hebrew Israelite Community of Jerusalem, and veganism was part of their religious beliefs, but I don't know if that's still the case.

My DH is half Filipino, and he likes to say that "vegetarian to a Filipino means no pork."

Very interesting thread.

[f1jim]

Nothing like personal histories to get the message home. This has always been about grass roots type building. I know I have a great deal of difficulty getting my family, who are quite sickly with western diseases, to make even the smallest of changes. I think younger people are more receptive. We have to start somewhere. Illness and disease are very expensive and the people they affect most are the people that can afford it the least! Maybe we could organize and get Dr. McDougall to speak locally and each of us get a handful of people to show up. Do you think it would come off too much like a white guy telling them how to live? We need about 5 Star McDougallers of color to speak and give their stories. Would there be an audience for that?
f1jim