So you really think we are progressing...

[geo]

...I'm just speachless...we are getting sicker because we aren't getting enough cholesterol in our "Vegan" food...

https://www.goodfood.com.au/good-health ... 909-h1hupr

[Grammy Ginger]

I can't decide if I want to sigh or yawn after reading that misleading article. I guess I'll just ignore it.

But it did give us something to talk about for a minute.

Thanks

[michaelswarm]

Dr Kahn has a detailed analysis of the discussed BMJ article here.
https://medium.com/@Kahn642/heart-attacks-strokes-vegetarians-vegans-and-headlines-a-few-comments-8ee7e0341e40

Significantly fiber of both vegans and vegetarians was below even the recommended minimum, and not much different than meat eaters. In others words not a WFPB diet. And there was still lower overall mortality for those groups.

That media is picking up on anti-plant, pro-meat messages may just be a reflection of popular culture, or good news about bad habits, as Dr McDougall says.

[f00die]

what?
so we are not gonna start eating steaks
to prevent a stroke? (we got a bleeder!)
btw, did anybody catch just how much meat
is protective?

[pundit999]

As Dr Kahn has pointed out, few of the participants were following a whole food plant based diet.
Fiber in vegan/vegetarians was only 20-25 gms per day: not a lot of whole foods.
Also the % fat was 30% for vegetarians and 28% for vegans.

There were so few strokes in vegans that it was difficult for researchers to draw any conclusions for vegans. They had to lump vegans with vegetarians to then claim that there was a 20% higher stroke risk for vegans/vegetarians.

In a nutshell, we in this group cannot learn anything new from this study.

Having said that, there have been a few anomalous conclusions related to strokes in other studies for vegans. Too early to draw any conclusions. But it is probably worth keeping an eye on.

[f00die]

...
Having said that, there have been a few anomalous conclusions related to strokes in other studies for vegans. Too early to draw any conclusions. But it is probably worth keeping an eye on.

in all seriousness, why?
even if this is a genuine solid gold 20% increase in bleeder strokes
what are going to do?
can eating more animal products help us
reduce our total chances of morbidity
in any situation?

[pundit999]

...
Having said that, there have been a few anomalous conclusions related to strokes in other studies for vegans. Too early to draw any conclusions. But it is probably worth keeping an eye on.

in all seriousness, why?
even if this is a genuine solid gold 20% increase in bleeder strokes
what are going to do?
can eating more animal products help us
reduce our total chances of morbidity
in any situation?

Don't know f00die. We know more as time goes on. As science knows more.
There may be something that makes this way of eating even better.

Science has found several new reasons why this diet works in just the last few years: the discovery of TMAO, the role of gut flora, increase in telomeres length, etc.

As science knows more, we may be like to tweak what we do, to make it even better.
Isn't there a possibility?

[JeffN]

You can see the supplemental material here which includes a subgroup analysis that separated out the vegans from the vegetarians

https://www.bmj.com/content/bmj/suppl/2 ... 481.ww.pdf

My earlier comments on the issue here

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=47598&p=490680#p490680

In Health
Jeff

[f00die]

You can see the supplemental material here which includes a subgroup analysis that separated out the vegans from the vegetarians

https://www.bmj.com/content/bmj/suppl/2 ... 481.ww.pdf

My earlier comments on the issue here

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=47598&p=490680#p490680

In Health
Jeff

if bp is ok: 110s/70s on no meds, for example
are there benefits to limiting concurrent salt intake?

[JeffN]

You can see the supplemental material here which includes a subgroup analysis that separated out the vegans from the vegetarians

https://www.bmj.com/content/bmj/suppl/2 ... 481.ww.pdf

My earlier comments on the issue here

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=47598&p=490680#p490680

In Health
Jeff

if bp is ok: 110s/70s on no meds, for example
are there benefits to limiting concurrent salt intake?

Yes. I go through all the additional issues and concerns in the War on Salt thread

In Health
Jeff

[JeffN]

Meat Is Murder. But You Know That Already.

High-tech fake meat isn’t the answer, because even though vegan ultra-processed food doesn’t kill animals it kills people and furthers climate change.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/17/book ... -foer.html

[Skip]

I wonder how many people in the climate strike today refrain from eating animal foods?
I wonder how many people in the climate strike today are against the use of carbon free safe nuclear power?
I wonder how many people in the climate strike today filled up their SUV's with gasoline to get to the strike?

[AnnetteW]

I have a subscription to a magazine called "Eating Well" (which when I got it thought it was something else....it was a freebie subscription). In the recent Oct 2019 issue is an article called "Coming Soon to a Plate Near You" and in it they are talking about lab grown meat.

This comment bugged me:

Eventually, the technology will get to the point where consumers simply enjoy it for the superior taste and affordable price (which has already dropped from the initial project's cost of more than $1 million per pound in 2013 to maybe $25 to $50 currently). They won't think about the fact that it's cell-based meat—they'll eat it because they like it. Because it's the new normal.

A link to some of the articles is here
http://www.eatingwell.com/category/4327/future-of-food/

and it's in the article "9 Experts Predict What the Future of Food Will Look Like."

The entire issue is about genes and gmos and science and technology. Nothing about real food. It's like good and bad all mixed into one. I don't read with the depth of others, and my interest doesn't lie in all of that either, but now that I get this magazine and can compare it to another, like Forks over Knives (which is so good) is an interesting comparison to me personally, and I can learn from that.

I did make one good recipe which I'll tear out.