Conflicting Advice for Cancer Diet - What is correct??

[Sadie064]

I am halfway through chemotherapy for breast cancer (Stage IV, to spine - as the docs say, "a little metastatic" ). I also have had type 1 diabetes for about 20 years with no complications despite less-than-stellar control and diet.

Since my cancer diagnosis in September of this year, I have cut out diet soda, processed foods, and simple sugars while increasing fruits and vegetables. I also work with a naturopathic doctor for supplements to alleviate chemo side effects. Now, I'm looking for more specific dietary guidance to aid in treatment, recovery and longevity. My research has left me with more questions than answers!

The naturopath suggests the Ketogenic diet, which in theory makes sense based on the belief that "sugar feeds cancer" (i.e. eliminate/limit all carbs, including fruit). Of course, allowing meat and dairy consumption is directly opposite of other cancer diet suggestions to go vegan. Reading through some of Dr. McDougall's articles and program, I see why meat and dairy is problematic. But I'm confused about carbs.

I asked an oncologist about the relationship between insulin and cancer, and was told that since cancer has insulin receptors, my best bet as a type 1 diabetic is to just keep my insulin needs as close as possible to a normal person's insulin needs.

What is Dr. McDougall's point of view on carb consumption as it relates to treatment/management of cancer cells?

Thank you!!

[Skip]

Animal protein feeds cancer.......read the "China Study"
http://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-ans ... in-puzzle/

[colonyofcells]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kU16LHTXjrA

[docscience]

This is also an important video to watch. just for some more background information of McDougall's research.
I would first recommend to start at the 25:00 minute point and watch a minute of that,
before starting at the beginning of it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyRuDpqYuvY
.
After that, and checking a couple more of his cancer videos, try contacting John McDougall directly for more information.
It seams to me, that the chemotherapy is one of the worst things that hospitals can do to people.
.
I would also recommend listening to those videos through a couple times each, just so that you are much more familiar about his viewpoints, and the background research involved. This will make it easier for you to understand his views on the subject, and help you know what specific questions that you want to ask.
.

[soul food]

https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2015nl ... cancer.htm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyRuDpqYuvY

[dailycarbs]

First, I'd fire the naturopath. The rest should fall into place.

[bethannerickson]

My deepest condolences on your diagnosis.

For what it's worth, I McDougalled faithfully for ten years. Then I was diagnosed with stage 2 colon cancer. After removing over half of my colon, I am now NED 2.5 years post diagnosis. My oncologist has treated people from all walks of life from vegans to low carbers and everything in between. After nearly 50 years in the field, he told me to "eat healthy, eliminate junk. Other than that, you really can't eat your way into or out of cancer."

Whether he's wrong on that count, I suppose could be up for debate. However, I didn't have much leverage to persuade him otherwise considering I lived the anti-cancer/McDougall diet for ten years prior to my diagnosis. This diet didn't slow down my cancer in the least. Tumor markers were sky high the day they removed it.

That's not to say there aren't tremendous benefits to a WFPB diet. It's just that it definitely didn't reverse any of my cancer cells... in fact it made recovery exceedingly harder (high fiber with short colon equals tremendous digestive distress). I am now easing back into the lifestyle because I truly believe there are excellent benefits for heart health in this way of eating.

As for the China Study... supposedly reversing one kind of cancer in one organ (liver), using one concentrated animal protein (casein), in genetically modified rats doesn't equal a real life situation in a human. (At least, that's what my oncologist told me.)

Listen to your doc. Enhance your life with the alt med stuff.

Most of all, be happy.

Best to you,

Beth from Minnesota

[colonyofcells]

What I heard from the mainstream is that about 30% of cancers can be prevented by diet. There are not many vegan gurus claiming cancer cures. I've not heard of any cancer cures coming from the ketogenic diet.

[patty]

In the video series The Truth About Cancer A Global Quest I enjoyed listening to Dr. Veronique Desaulniers. In essence she shared you don't catch cancer. What was interesting she shared in her practice she worked with a people with cancer and it was a major shock that she had breast cancer as she was a super doc and super healthy. What was fascinating was her breast cancer was healed with black salve. She took pictures documenting it. http://cancercompassalternateroute.com/ ... saulniers/

Diet she shares she eats organic. Not sure if she eats a certain percentage of free range as in this video she mentions it: 7 Essentials for Healing and Preventing Breast Cancer with Dr. V--#002 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07faXOjyfxs

Aloha, patty

[Skip]

As for the China Study... supposedly reversing one kind of cancer in one organ (liver), using one concentrated animal protein (casein), in genetically modified rats doesn't equal a real life situation in a human. (At least, that's what my oncologist told me.)

Listen to your doc. Enhance your life with the alt med stuff.

There was a lot more to the China Study than the experiment with rats. Listen to this:

http://nutritionstudies.org/the-china-s ... r-webinar/

Listening to a doctor that is advising a ketogenic diet may not be the best advice.....

There has been some interesting research that relates to the power of fasting and breast cancer:

https://news.usc.edu/78953/fasting-and- ... motherapy/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGafhm1cuSI

[f1jim]

bethannerickson is right about a lot of things cancer related. I might disagree with a few but we agree that no one should ever present this diet as a 100% way to avoid cancer. Or as a way to 100% cure an established cancer. That would be making a point not proved by science.

What would be safe to say is that a whole foods plant based diet can be preventative for many cancers we know about. There is good data suggesting plant based dieters have less incidence of many cancers. Someone trying to prevent cancers would be well advised to follow a plant based diet. Someone with cancer already would be advised to follow it for the same reasons. That is not the same as claiming it always keeps cancer away or can cure established cancers. Dr McDougall would never claim such a thing. He would advise his diet as the best possible way to eat to minimize your chances of contracting cancer and maximizing your chances for remission if you already have it. He has several videos on treating cancer and they are worth watching. His information is data based and not conjecture.
Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.
f1jim

[Spiral]

I think we need to clear up some confusion though. Often times you will hear someone refer to "The China Study" as a study on rats and casein. But this is a gross distortion. The Cornell-Oxford China project was an observational study of diet and health among human beings, the Chinese, in a multitude of provinces in China. The China Study, the book, was a book that summarized hundreds of scientific studies that Dr. T. Colin Campbell thought made a strong case for a whole food plant based diet.

When people, including physicians, dismiss the China Study as a study on rats and casein, it only proves that they have not read the book.

[bethannerickson]

bethannerickson is right about a lot of things cancer related. I might disagree with a few but we agree that no one should ever present this diet as a 100% way to avoid cancer. Or as a way to 100% cure an established cancer. That would be making a point not proved by science.

What would be safe to say is that a whole foods plant based diet can be preventative for many cancers we know about. There is good data suggesting plant based dieters have less incidence of many cancers. Someone trying to prevent cancers would be well advised to follow a plant based diet. Someone with cancer already would be advised to follow it for the same reasons. That is not the same as claiming it always keeps cancer away or can cure established cancers. Dr McDougall would never claim such a thing. He would advise his diet as the best possible way to eat to minimize your chances of contracting cancer and maximizing your chances for remission if you already have it. He has several videos on treating cancer and they are worth watching. His information is data based and not conjecture.
Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.
f1jim

Thanks for your kind words. You just pinpointed why, despite my utter frustration concerning this issue, I keep endeavoring to continue my McDougall lifestyle. You also highlighted why I keep coming back to this board.

It's sometimes incredibly difficult to eat this way with around half of my colon missing. However, I also realize it's my best bet to keep any potential mets at bay.

I've always taken a "trust but verify" approach to this way of living. I trust the diet will work, but happily verify its success with my family doc. That motto saved my life as I'm nowhere near 55 years old, underwent my physician recommended colonoscopy, and was diagnosed with a large tumor in my transverse colon (contrary to Dr. McDougall's colonoscopy recommendations).

But that's beside the point. My advice to the original poster is this: This diet rocks. It's fabulous, kind, and exceedingly healthy. That said, don't leave your medical team. They're also wonderful and have tools and diagnostic tests that could save your life as well.

Thanks again, Jim. I find your posts very helpful.

Beth

[Skip]

Beth,

You may have had cancer way over 10 years ago. The McDougall diet may or may not have slowed it's growth. I don't know how one could determine that. I listened to one of your podcasts and you said that the cancer was the size of a golf ball.
Based on this, I offer the Steve Jobs analysis that Dr. McDougall wrote about:

https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2011nl/nov/jobs.htm

[Ern2Win]

What Jim says is undoubtedly correct. There are no absolutes. But the point of the diet is to stack the odds in your favor.

Dr. John Kelley did many case studies with his own cancer patients where he instructed them in eating WFPB with no animal products and wrote a book about it called "Stop Feeding Your Cancer". He just guest authored a piece on nutritionstudies.org (Dr. Campbell's site) talking about it.

Follows the most significant paragraph from that piece:

From that moment on I spoke about the diet to every cancer patient that walked through my office door. Some of them had been sick for many years and their cancers were very advanced, whilst others were just newly diagnosed. In total, almost seventy patients took part in my trial. I suggested to all of them that they should get a copy of The China Study and that they would have to stay on an animal protein free diet indefinitely. What happened far exceeded anything that I could have hoped for. Almost all of the patients began to feel considerably better within just a few weeks. It was as if their cancers had actually stopped growing. Astonishingly, my simple experiment appeared to be working. In my book Stop Feeding Your Cancer I describe some of the more dramatic cases that I have seen over the past ten years. One could say that all of them behaved in the manner Colin Campbell might have predicted. Those patients that committed faithfully to the diet remained in good health whilst those that were not compliant responded very much like the rats in his experiments. When there was animal protein in the diet their cancers flared up, only to come back under control again as soon as a WFPB diet was resumed.