Where's the Starch?

[bridgetohealth]

A week or so ago someone posted a video about some vegans who were being sued by someone they criticized for recommending that people only eat 1600 calories a day, which these vegans thought was too little.

Well, one of our vegan big-names has a FB post I found pretty disturbing, where she says that the food in the linked photo is all she eats in a week.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1406708999633133&set=p.1406708999633133&type=3&theater

I personally don't see much of any starch in the photo, and not as many non-starchy vegetables or fruit as she says there are, but even going by what she says there are, there are only 950 calories per day there. (she says there are 7 lbs of sweet potatoes, 16 pounds of vegetables and 8 pounds of fruit in photo. I input the fruit and vegetables she shows adding to those pounds plus 7 lbs sweet potatoes in cronometer and it came to 6657 calories, or 951 per day). In all the comments when people suggested she must be eating more, she said this is it.

Someone said

Where are the potatoes? Or rice?

and the vegan said

there is a 7 pound bag of organic sweet potatoes there.

Someone said

I call bs on this. Sorry. I'm vegan and this is not three meals a day for seven days

And the vegan said

i am quite thin and hypothyroid and I don't need as many calories as you. 5 pounds a food a day is quite enough for me,.

Someone said

that will seriously last you a week? nothing else?

And the vegan said

just spices and condiment. there are 7 pounds of organic sweet potatoes and over 8 pounds of fruit and 16 pounds of veggies. I eat 2 pounds of veggies, one pound of fruit and at least a pound of potatoes (or other starch) a day.

And she said sometimes her starch is 1-2 pounds of butternut squash a day, which would lower her daily calories even more. All told, based on what she says of her normal daily diet of 1-2 pounds of potatoes or butternut squash, 2 pounds non-starchy vegetables, and 1 pound of fruit a day, that adds up to anywhere from 700-1100 calories a day, even putting in some of the higher-calorie fruit and vegetables she has in photo. Lower-calorie fruit/vegetables could be even less than that!

As usual,the fact that she is charging for help in weight loss means that public criticism of her advice should be allowed. The fact that she's on "our" side shouldn't change that. The fact that she has a starch solution certificate means she indicates that it may be a McDougall Plan, but again if so, "Where's the Starch?" Giving the public the idea that this is the amount of food that someone should be eating to maintain healthy weight is in my opinion setting them up for either a) failure or b) an eating disorder.

[JuicerJohn]

To be fair, she does say in one comment that she is hypo-thyroid and does not need as much food as you.

My wife is also hypo-thyroid. She has been leaning more and more recently toward this WOE, she is not there yet, but is moving in the right direction.

She does not eat even half what I do, but weight is a constant struggle for her. It does not surprise me at all to learn that a hypo-thyroid person who is thin and maintaining weight consumes under 1000 calories per day.

[dteresa]

I am guessing I eat under 1800 calories per day. Maybe less if I keep the starches low. I am having trouble losing those last few pounds without doing a drastic reduction in calories or exercising like mad, neither of which I want to do. I could and do often easily eat 1600 calories per day but not lose weight like chef AJ. Darn.


What worries me is that Jeff says on a varied diet of 2300 calories you will get all the protein you need. But I and others on this board do not eat 2300 calories per day. My own count must usually be between sixteen and eighteen hundred at the most.



didi

[JeffN]

What worries me is that Jeff says on a varied diet of 2300 calories you will get all the protein you need. But I and others on this board do not eat 2300 calories per day. My own count must usually be between sixteen and eighteen hundred at the most.

The statement in regard to protein is that if you follow the recommended guidelines and principles and consume a diet that is adequate in calories to maintain a healthy weight, etc etc (And to me, a healthy weight is one that is in the lower end of the healthy range).

For some, that is much less than 2300 calories. Remember, protein needs are calculated based on ideal body weight. If you weigh less, you need less protein.

In Health
Jeff

[bridgetohealth]

I am guessing I eat under 1800 calories per day. Maybe less if I keep the starches low. I am having trouble losing those last few pounds without doing a drastic reduction in calories or exercising like mad, neither of which I want to do. I could and do often deasily eat 1600 calories per day but not lose weight like chef AJ. Darn.




didi

Except that she's not eating 1600 calories a day. Like I said, this week it's 950 calories a day, and her description is 700-1100 calories.

And the post is how great it is to be a vegan because you can eat so cheaply even all organically. Yeah, it's cheaper to eat 950 calories a day than to eat a healthy amount ..

[babybuddha]

Hi bridgetohealth, could you clarify your concern? Is it that the author appears to be eating a very low calorie diet or is it the perceived lack of emphasis on starch? Or something else?

I read that post on fb a couple of days ago and the comments thread contained general consternation. I thought the caption alongside the picture was somewhat misleading - more aptly a weeks worth of fresh produce, not the total sum of food as it reads. It would be interesting and clarifying to see the volume of starch that goes with that.

[bridgetohealth]

Hi bridgetohealth, could you clarify your concern? Is it that the author appears to be eating a very low calorie diet or is it the perceived lack of emphasis on starch? Or something else?

I read that post on fb a couple of days ago and the comments thread contained general consternation. I thought the caption alongside the picture was somewhat misleading - more aptly a weeks worth of fresh produce, not the total sum of food as it reads. It would be interesting and clarifying to see the volume of starch that goes with that.

Somehow my post isn't clear I guess, because people have misread and think I'm concerned that she eats 1600 calories (no, I'm concerned that she eats 950 calories and is promoting her way of eating), and you don't understand either:

The food seems to be hidden in her photo since I don't see it all but she clarifies in the comments that this food is:

7 pounds of sweet potatoes
16 pounds of vegetables
8 pounds of fruit

She says that is all she will eat for the week except for added condiments. She repeats several times to several commenters that this is all she will eat. I pasted some of those exchanges in my original post.

Putting that into chronometer, that is 950 calories a day.

My concern is that it is too few calories, and it is too few calories because there is not enough emphasis on starch. Other than my general concern about any human being's health, my concern is that this is someone who acts as a spokesperson for healthy plant-based eating, and even sometimes gives the idea that she follows Dr McDougall's ideas on starch-based eating, and charges people $100 a head for eating advice.

Her post:

"Here is my food for a week. Mostly organic, it cost less then $90! Less than $13 a day to eat healthy. I have spent more that that on a single meal at a certain vegan restaurant."

Again, I don't think 950 calories a day is "healthy," and I haven't ever read about hypothyroid people eating less than 1100-1200, but if she's eating only 950 calories because of a disease, then her post should be "it's cheap to eat when you have thyroid disease" or something to that effect.

[dteresa]

THANK YOU , JEFF, FOR CLARIFYING THAT FOR ME. I am doing the happy dance.

didi

[JeffN]

THANK YOU , JEFF, FOR CLARIFYING THAT FOR ME. I am doing the happy dance.

didi

You are welcome.

BTW, in regard to the cost, $13/day is *not* inexpensive.

In Health
Jeff

[VegMommy]

BTW, in regard to the cost, $13/day is *not* inexpensive.

Thank you! That was my first reaction!

[AlwaysAgnes]

It's just a photo of one particular week's grocery haul. What am I supposed to do--castigate her, publicly condemn her, or try to derail her career over that? Ain't gonna happen. She eats low calorie density, and that's probably a good idea if you consume 5# of food a day or are a volume eater. What she eats isn't far from the general recommendations of Goldhamer at True North. http://www.healthpromoting.com/learning ... about-food When it comes to McDougall, I believe she subscribes to the MWL paradigm more than the regular McDougall plan.

http://www.healthygirlskitchen.com/2014 ... f-ajs.html
https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2014nl/jun/recipes.htm
http://www.jeffnovick.com/RD/Articles/E ... ition.html

I think Kempner's Rice diet for weight loss was under 1000 calories per day. Dr McDougall says it was 400 to 800 calories. https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2005nl ... 100vol.htm I guess it's 800 to 1000 calories now. http://www.medicaldaily.com/rice-diet-w ... ses-256274

Maybe eating that way (2# vegs + 1# fruit + starch as needed) or UWL isn't for everyone. Maybe it isn't for you. Fine. If it isn't, just don't do it. Easy peasy. Right? Me, I'm not a volume eater. (I probably eat closer to 3# of food a day than 5#.) MWL doesn't really interest me. 100% unprocessed doesn't interest me. If that's all that McDougall offered, I probably wouldn't be here.


Now, let's just keep on truckin'. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyDazBR5riI This journey ain't over 'til it's over.

[dteresa]

I wonder if people bother to count in restaurant meals when they figure out how much their weekly food budget is. Or do they not consider that a food bill but log it in under entertainment? I seldom eat in a restaurant except maybe on occasion when I visit my brother in AZ.

I figure that my food bill is a lot higher than 5 dollars per day because at the market I often try new things or treat myself to what might be called luxuries. Sometimes I buy organic hearts of palm at about $3.50 a can. Or organic low salt beans in a can instead of the far cheaper dried beans. Or those yummy giant pink lady or honeycrisp apples at $2.50 per pound instead of those bags of smaller, less tasty apples that come in three pound bags for a couple of dollars. I just spent the ridiculous amount of $5.00 per pound for Lundberg lower arsenic california brown rice at the local health food store (the only place I could find it) when I could have gotten the cheaper stuff in the super market for about $1.49 per pound. (I am not a big rice eater and it will last quite a while.)

I just love the more expensive golden potatoes at five or six dollars per bag around here (1.49 per pound if they are labeled Yukon Gold and not just golden potatoes) when I could get really cheap russets.

And so on. Maybe I treat myself because what I really want is pizza, hot wings and hoagies. I was born and raised in Philly.

But it is nice to know that if I had to I could really cut back on my grocery bill.

didi

[bridgetohealth]

It's just a photo of one particular week's grocery haul. What am I supposed to do--castigate her, publicly condemn her, or try to derail her career over that?

I think Kempner's Rice diet for weight loss was under 1000 calories per day. Dr McDougall says it was 400 to 800 calories.

Maybe eating that way (2# vegs + 1# fruit + starch as needed) or UWL isn't for everyone. Maybe it isn't for you. Fine. If it isn't, just don't do it. Easy peasy. Right? )

Who said anything about derailing anyone's career? I only follow a few (I think the number is 5) organizations/ "public figures" on FB and they are ones whose opinions I value. I disagreed with the vitriol that entered into some of the internal "Diet Wars." However, the idea that no one who is LFWFPB can ever be called out on anything ever (except their definition of "cheap"), and that no one can ever say, "hey, I don't like what they say and maybe it's not a good public message" without being accused of trying to derail their career borders on cultish.

I brought up at the beginning of my post a thread about two vegans who posted a Youtube video about some other public figure (I don't follow Paleo or the Biggest Loser it was someone from one of those) and how oh-so-terrible it was that she was promoting a 1600 calorie a day diet. No one in the thread thought there was any issue with this pair of vegans criticizing her publicly on Youtube (which had I any interest in "derailing" someone's career is what I'd do, not post something here without mentioning the person by name so it wouldn't be found in a search), nor did anyone say "hey, but 1600 calories is double what Kempner recommended!" (the thread had to do with their second video on the subject because she was suing them, and comments in the thread centered on their use of the F-word and what-not)

TrueNorth recommends the majority of calories from starch, but sometimes for relatively short periods they actually recommend a zero-calorie diet (i.e., a water fast). But both the water fast and Kempner's extra-restrictive program (which, as is stated in the Dr McDougall article you linked to, was normally 2,000-3,000 calories a day and the extra restrictive was for morbidly obese patients who couldn't succeed on the regular Kemner diet) are under a doctor's care. And Kemner also physically beat his patients who didn't comply, so again, no one, whether one of Dr McDougall's "mentors" or Dr.McDougall himself, or anyone, is perfect and above reproach unless you're talking about a religious figure or cult leader.

There are thousands of threads here picking apart each detail of numerous dietary suggestions. Of course the answer can always be just "eat what you want," and be done with it.

[MINNIE]

I don't know how many calories I eat.

I don't know how many calories other people eat.

What would I do differently if I did know?

Nothing:).



Peace, love and starch to all!

[AlwaysAgnes]

I didn't see her claim it was inexpensive, just that it was less than the cost of one meal at a vegan restaurant. The quote:
"Here is my food for a week. Mostly organic, it cost less then $90! Less than $13 a day to eat healthy. I have spent more that that on a single meal at a certain vegan restaurant."

Expensive and inexpensive are relative terms, aren't they. $13/day might be "expensive" compared to the thrifty food stamp budget, but that doesn't mean it's not "inexpensive" compared to eating one meal in a certain vegan restaurant. $90/week might be considered "inexpensive" compared to the average $146/week spent by woman in this poll:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/156416/ameri ... e-180.aspx

You want to know what I think is expensive? Some brands of canned beans, priced at over 2 bucks for a 15-ounce can. Highway robbery, I tell ya. I won't pay it. I just flat refuse.