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I'm new in posting to this forum too, but I have been a long time reader, and enjoy all of the information. I was hoping that someone might have some advice for me. For the last 4 years or so, I've been caught up in bouncing between websites that vary from low carb supporters to going vegetarian and everything in between. I read books on all these subject all the time. It's gotten kind of bad. Not to get too personal, but now I'm so guilty to eat toast or give into cravings of a sandwich because that would not be low carb. I don't have any weight to lose, but I really have started down a terrible path to an eating disorder. I don't know what to believe. I used to be only interested in being a vegetarian for the longest time. Anyways, I'm sorry if this is not the right area to post this, but if anyone has any sound advice, I'd appreciate it. Thanks so much,
Joe.

Sadly most of us had eating disorders before we found McDougall. Low carb diets demonise certain food groups and this gives way to feeling of wortlessness. Now this might sound funny coming from a vegan site, but there is so much science that back up the claims made here.

Grains aren't bad and are part of a healthy lifestyle as long as you can tolerate them. Did you know that most low carb diets work because people eat less when following them? It's the same with me on this regime. I cannot eat as much good food as I can junk.

Now I used to get up close and personal with the peanut butter jar. No spreading it on bread, I am gluten free, I just ate it with a spoon. Ok so I rationed myself to one jar a week, but I was still addicted. I got so guilty because I was on a raw diet at the time and of course the peanut butter was cooked.

So I have been there and done that and I know how much it tears one up inside. Maybe have a trial and see how it goes. However your body might react a little differently until it adjusts to a new diet so give it time.

Anyway you need not feel guilty about having toast. Just don't spread butter on it. Have some fruit preserve instead. My favourite burger used to be a big grilled portabello mushroom and onions. Try this it might become your favourite too. Also have a chat to Jeff Novick. He is knowlegeable and friendly as well as being a great RD.

Best of luck from one who has been there.

You have studied both sides and have not found either one convincing?

What are you seeking out of your diet? You don't need to lose weight - are you concerned about your current health, or your long-term health? Something else?

I am sure just telling you what to do won't help, because the low carbohydrate people will tell you the opposite, and since neither side has convinced you, who are you to believe?

Perhaps instead, some of my own experience will help. What I am about to say is completely anecdotal, of course, and is not grounds for a life-long decision on your part.

When I tried the Atkins diet, I became ill. I craved carbohydrates, like you. My body forced me to give it up after only a few weeks. I did not voluntarily give it up; I physically could not stand it anymore. I know many people on the internet claim to be happy and healthy on a low-carb diet, but of all the people that I personally know that have tried it, none have succeeded, and all have become worse. All of them. Check with the people you know. How many have tried it, without cheating, and actually succeeded, and continue to succeed?

Later, I stumbled upon The China Study by T. Colin Campbell, Ph.D. That was the pivot point in my life. It is the point when I stopped dying, and started healing. It provided the scientific education I was lacking, and the understanding of why I was sick. I followed the reference in the book to this place, where Dr. John McDougall taught me most of the rest of what I know, including how to succeed on a whole foods vegan diet.

That is pretty much it, in a nutshell.

You crave carbohydrates because you need carbohydrates. This is just like how you crave air and water; because you need both. You crave cheese and dairy because it is chemically addicting (milk contains opiates, which is a narcotic). I learned that from Breaking the Food Seduction by Dr. Neal Barnard. A few weeks after eliminating dairy from my diet, my cravings for it were gone and have never come back. My craving for carbohydrates never went away. Now, I find cheese rather smelly, kind of like the rotten pus that it is (part of milk's whiteness comes from pus (see the "Marketing Milk and Disease" lecture from McDougall's Medicine DVD - free download: https://ssl.sonic.net/mcdsite/free/DLV03-V04.zip), and cheese is made in part by allowing milk to age, or, in other words, rot). Your cravings for fatty foods are driven by your body's desire to store fat for periods of scarcity or starvation. Any cravings for meat that you might have is a craving for the salt in the meat; you have taste buds for the salt put on the meat, but not for the animal proteins that come with the meat.

Here is one more thing to think about. Lets say you separate all foods into three categories: animal foods (meat and dairy), plant foods (comes from the ground), and industrial foods ("food" that only exists when machines or mechanisms are involved, like oil, white bread, white rice, High Fructose Corn Syrup, Soy Protein Isolate, candy, etc...). Now lets say you also separate all diets into four categories, while ignoring the weird ones that involve eating nothing or a single thing (or ...): Atkins-like, Standard American Diet (SAD)-like, McDougall-like, and Western-Vegan (for lack of a better term). What does the grid look like?

.............................animal..................plant............industrial
Atkins......................yes......................yes.................no
SAD.........................yes......................yes................yes
Western-Vegan..........no......................yes.................yes
McDougall..................no......................yes..................no

I believe - and I think most people here would agree - that two of these food categories (animal, plant, industrial) are unhealthy in the human diet. Atkins and McDougall diets tell you that industrial foods are unhealthy. Western-Vegan and McDougall diets tell you that animal foods are unhealthy. All diets tell you that plant foods are healthy, though they may impose some of their own restrictions on the particular kinds of plant foods (Atkins doesn't like starches but does like fat, where-as McDougall likes starches and does not like fat). It seems that plant foods are the undisputed champions of the diets - all of them, even the evil one.


I hope this helps in some way. If you have already studied both sides in-depth, with a razor-sharp mind and a skeptical bent, and are still confused, I am not really sure how I could help. It sounds like you are on, or trying to be on, a low-carbohydrate diet now. Perhaps you should give the McDougall diet a serious six month trial. Will you still desire meat and cheese after that period? If you don't, maybe Dr. Barnard, Dr. McDougall, and the others are right, and you shouldn't eat it.

I just re-read through the replys and can't believe I didn't say Thank you.
I am still so up in the air, but you all make so much sense too. Thank you

You know, for years, I followed the school of thought that I wanted to overeat cookies, baked goods, and chocolate because I was numbing out my feelings, or that I was a compulsive eater, or because they were still forbidden in my mind. Well, I was able to legalize chocolate, in that I only had a small amount each day, without stressing out over it. But I was never able to "legalize" cookies, high-fat, high-sugar squares, or cakes, so that I could have just one portion a day and I blamed myself. Dr. Mcdougall (and "the Pleasure Trap") taught me that it wasn't my problem, just a chemical reaction in my brain to those addicting foods (ie fat and sugar) that is wired into us to ensure our survival, ie. enough calories in times of food scarcity. Since I have been Mcdougalling, I have come to realize that he is ABSOLUTELY RIGHT! And that your body craves carbs because they are its' main source of energy. I can't tell you how many people think protein is their main source of fuel! Hope this helps. Complex carbs are proven to be your main, and best, source of fuel.

Brian,

I agree with all the above. I'm 44 years old, have been around the dieting block with every program out there. My system's completely wacked. But I feel better eating this way than any other way. I don't seem to have the cravings that I do with any other diet. Am I perfect? No. I fall off the wagon from time to time. But that's okay...one foot in front of the other.

I'm not going to go crazy spiritual on you, but if you have a bible, read the book of Genesis. God had it all worked out for us from the beginning of time. And I believe His way is the healthiest for us.

You've been brainwashed for far too long. Carbs are not the enemy. All these crazy diets came to be because America just ate too much garbage and certain individuals wanted to cash in on their unhealthiness (dishealth, non-health??)!!! And lots of it!!!

There's a lot of people in this forum that will be of great help to you. Don't be afraid to ask questions. And don't be afraid to make mistakes. You're gonna slip from time to time. But if you can gets 90% away from the Standard American Diet, you'll be 90% healthier. 100%? 100% healthier.

Good luck. Reach out when you need help.

K

Thanks for the encouragement. You know, I have read about the health benefits of God's original diet plan. What's funny, as I was reading your post, Pat Robertson's 700 club was on, and I was listening to it from the other room, it's skinny Wednesday, and someone had written in asking about diet and feeling better. His answer was to eat lot's of protein, chicken, fish and vegetables, etc. How funny that I'm reading all this about eating a starch based diet and feeling better, and then hearing that at the same time. That is what is frustrating the heck out of me, all the well intentioned sources give so much different advice.

Oh, yeah. Absolutely. I see your point.

But go back to the book of Genesis and read the beginning. Its clear to me that we were intended to be plant eaters. And even though Jesus declared all foods clean when He hit the scene (by saying that its not what goes into a man's mouth that makes him unclean, but what comes out of his heart that makes him unclean), they still only ate the fatted calf on festivals or for celebrations. They didn't consume meat like people are doing today. I think plant foods were optimal for us back then and they are now.

Do some soul searching and pray on it if you're so inclined. You'll get the answer!!!

K