osteoporosis/osteopenia

[mkh9]

Hi group,
I am a 51 year old woman and I have been on the starch/whole plant based diet for a year and a half now. I am peri-menopausal and have had a back problem for 4 years where I have been sitting too much and not working. This year I injured my rotator cuff and have a frozen shoulder as well but it is getting better. Yesterday I was diagnosed with osteoporosis of the hip and osteopenia on the spine. I feel I am a bit young for this and have always been very athletic until the last few years. I don't know if that short time is where all the bone problems have occurred. I am taking 1000mg of calcium and had my vitamin D tested and am taking 4000IU of vitamin D to try to get it up to a high normal range. I am now starting Fosamax. I hate to take more meds. I have to look into my meds to see if any cause bone loss such as the Topamax that I'm taking. Other than that is there anything that you can suggest dietary wise or am I lacking something. I am now walking a hour a day and doing about 170 stairs a day. Other than my migraine variant/vertigo, I have no other health issues. So, I have added holding 1 pound weights while I walk. Any suggestions now that I am recovering would be helpful.
Thank you,
MarieH9

[PurplePotato]

Hi Marie,

First throw the fosmax in the trash, as it causes brittle bones, and may cause esophageal cancer. The whole bone mineral density test an the resulting treatments are simply a business. And if you take any other drugs for osteoporosis, you can dump them as well.

This video by Dr. McDougall on osteoporosis treatment is also very good.

And you can ditch the supplements too. The necessary values for vitamin D are overstated, and it is best gotten from sunlight. And as far as calcium goes, osteoporosis is not caused by a lack of calcium intake, but by calcium loss due to the acidity of taking in excess protein, primarily from animal foods.

So basically, you can ditch the drugs, and the supplements too, and ignore the diagnosis of osteoporosis, as the diagnosis may be wrong, and even if you do have it the way to cure it is by sticking to your healthy diet and moderate exercise - and it looks like you've got that covered

[Katydid]

First off, osteopenia isn't even a real disease. The bones of women are heavier than they need to be during childbearing years so that the extra bone can be used to build the skeletons of babies. After menopause, bones naturally thin out because the extra bone mass isn't necessary any longer. The drug companies quite literally took this natural bone thinning and invented the 'disease' of osteopenia. You may want to watch Dr. Welsh's excellent video based on his book Overdiagnosed free on this site:

http://www.drmcdougall.com/health/educa ... diagnosed/

FYI, I had severe osteoporosis due to prolonged steroid use (chronic asthma - see Star McDougaller link below). Increasing the consumption of high-calcium greens and a daily walking and lifting program completely reversed it - drug free.

Kate

[scooterpie]

I'm not a dr. If you haven't reviewed (asked about your concerns re: effects of your meds on bone health) your meds with a pharmacist--that's something they're really good at. I've never found one to not be extremely helpful. It just takes time, but it's worth it!

Keep educating yourself--great that you're exercising and paying close attention to your vitamin D level. JeffN in his forum discusses getting your vitamin D levels checked--IOW he doesn't appear to be averse to doing so:-) As we age, and/or if we're obese or have darker skin naturally, vitamin D manufacturing by our bodies can be difficult. If you tolerate the supplements--go for it. Then check your levels again later on. Vitamin D deficiency isn't a good thing for many reasons. (http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Vitami ... fessional/)

Here's an older NPR report on osteopenia/osteoporosis: How A Bone Disease Grew To Fit The Prescription.

I wish you well. Also check this out for a recent testimonial IN THIS VERY FORUM: reversal of osteoporosis

[dynodan62]

First off, osteopenia isn't even a real disease. The bones of women are heavier than they need to be during childbearing years so that the extra bone can be used to build the skeletons of babies. After menopause, bones naturally thin out because the extra bone mass isn't necessary any longer. The drug companies quite literally took this natural bone thinning and invented the 'disease' of osteopenia. You may want to watch Dr. Welsh's excellent video based on his book Overdiagnosed free on this site:

http://www.drmcdougall.com/health/educa ... diagnosed/

FYI, I had severe osteoporosis due to prolonged steroid use (chronic asthma - see Star McDougaller link below). Increasing the consumption of high-calcium greens and a daily walking and lifting program completely reversed it - drug free.

Kate

Kate,

I assume you were taking prednisone? How long did it take after total withdrawal to completely reverse the bone loss?
I was on an inhaled steroid for many years, and wondered if associated bone thinning might have contributed to vertebral collapse/back pain, but a recent density test (3 years no asthma drugs) was negative.

[mkh9]

Thanks to all. I will review all the data you have given me. I welcome any other info others would like share as well.
I have been monitored for vitamin D and will continue that in the future I think that is good to have it in the high normal range or even high range. I know about the leaching out of bone due to milk products I assume you all mean over the past years when I did drink milk products and ate cheese. I don't now but that has only been a year and a half. I do hope this is reverseable because I can't stand the thought of falling apart at my age I feel good except for back pain and want to do a lot of travelling and hiking. I'll read your stories. I'm sure they are amazing.
Marieh9

[mkh9]

Scooterpie,
Yes as I mentioned I 'm getting tested for Vitamin D. I am very fair completed and northern European ancestery although I was born in the U.S. I will look at all the links. I hope this is reverseable.
thanks,
Marieh9

[Katydid]

First off, osteopenia isn't even a real disease. The bones of women are heavier than they need to be during childbearing years so that the extra bone can be used to build the skeletons of babies. After menopause, bones naturally thin out because the extra bone mass isn't necessary any longer. The drug companies quite literally took this natural bone thinning and invented the 'disease' of osteopenia. You may want to watch Dr. Welsh's excellent video based on his book Overdiagnosed free on this site:

http://www.drmcdougall.com/health/educa ... diagnosed/

FYI, I had severe osteoporosis due to prolonged steroid use (chronic asthma - see Star McDougaller link below). Increasing the consumption of high-calcium greens and a daily walking and lifting program completely reversed it - drug free.

Kate

Kate,

I assume you were taking prednisone? How long did it take after total withdrawal to completely reverse the bone loss?
I was on an inhaled steroid for many years, and wondered if associated bone thinning might have contributed to vertebral collapse/back pain, but a recent density test (3 years no asthma drugs) was negative.

Oh, yes. Massive doses of prednisone on-and-off all my adult life. I'd get weaned off of it, and then have another major attack or bronchitis or pneumonia and back on again I'd go. When I was finally able to wean off of for good (Thanks again Dr. M ) I had a bad fall that resulted in a broken ankle, which resulted in a bone scan, which showed I had the bones of a 90 year old (I was in my 40s at the time). It took about 5 years until my bone density scans stopped being in the negative and into the positive. It might have gone faster, but its only been the last couple of years that I have really developed a passion for green leafy vegetables and became serious about load-bearing exercise. I told my brother yesterday (as I headed off to the grocery store) that if someone had told me 10 years ago that I would be upset if I didn't have kale or collards to eat with my dinner I would have told them they were crazy. Funny how tastes change.

[mkh9]

katydid,
I read your success story and it is amazing! Yes I see a lot of differences besides the weight loss, I see major muscle tone, and you are happy. You look healthy. So I have some questions. I haven't finished looking at all the videos they are long but interesting. I am worried because I have osteoporosis and if I don't start with the Fosamax to at least try to reverse some of the bone loss while I am trying to get myself in shape it will get worse. I will explain. So, I am not overweight, I have been inactive for 4 years due to a back injury and only the last year and a half I have been walking and have it up to 1 hour a day and do 170 stairs a day. But I am not doing all my regular chores around the house yet. I do dishes and pergo one room here and there. I am not working because of the back injury and also I got chronic tendonitis from work too. 9 months ago I also got a rotator cuff injury and frozen shoulder. So I can't lift more than about 3-4 pounds. So, I walk around the stores with my husband but I can't lift stuff into the basket. I started carrying 1 lb weights while I walk. My GP said it is good to build bone mass. So, I need help in getting my frozen shoulder back to normal (it is almost there but not yet) and help with how to build muscle and not hurt my back since I'm still weak. How do I build bone under these circumstances exercise wise? I need help here. I am on the McDougall diet and have been for a year and a half. So, that is good. My BMI is 21. I weight 136 and am 5 foot 7. Other problems are migraine since I was 23. It is a variant. In my 20's I just would get stressed or excited and would throw up all night no headache. In my 30's I got the classic migraine with or without aura. Now I get the migraine with or without aura but started getting double vision and severe vertigo where I just fall down (it is not my ears as I had that checked). So they put me on Topamax. They tried other stuff first but that is what worked. So, the thing with Topamax is it can cause osteoporosis but supposed if you are under 100mg (which I am ) it doesn't . But now I had a bone density and I have it. It makes me wonder it I got it from that but I have been monitoring my electrolytes all along for acidosis and it is normal. I was a big tennis player all my life until I hurt my back and then also was jogging up until by back problem and also my doctor says I have osteoarthritis (mild) and not to jog. So knowing all my history. Can you and others help me? I get eating kale and other greens. But what exercises to build bone and what else? I am either peri-menopausal too and trying to figure out if I am menopausal. Just for the history. This summer was the first time we actually went hiking (easy hikes) in Mammoth California for two weeks. I was able to do it which is really good for me. I am trying to increase my stamina as well. I get tired easily. Oh, I also have lots of allergies to topical antibiotics and topical steroids. I use one topical steroid on my hands for eczema. I hope that doesn't absorb enough to cause bone problems. I don't know what else to do for it. Believe me I have tried everything.
thanks for any and all suggestions and support you can give.
Marieh9

[ETeSelle]

I would see if you can get your doctor to Rx physical therapy. I got a lot out of my PT for a broken ankle--more or less free personal training sessions for 10 weeks! If that's impossible, hire a personal trainer.

The key is weight-bearing exercises--arms, legs, back and abs. A physical therapist will be able to help you figure out a workout plan with the weight machines that will help you build bone without injuring your back. A GOOD personal trainer can do the same thing.

8 weeks after I broke my ankle--after 8 weeks of being non-weightbearing on my R leg--my x-rays (not a bone scan machine--just a regular radiograph) showed clear loss of bone density compared w/ my radiographs taken just after the break happened (it was a horse who broke my ankle--nothing related to bone density issues LOL!).

8 weeks later, after I'd started PT and was doing that twice a week and working out at the gym 3 other days a week, my bone density on radiograph looked just like it had before the break.

At no time did I consume calcium or D supplements (although I thought about it) or alter my McDougall diet.

Weight-bearing exercise is where it's at. And IMO women tend to walk, which helps their legs, but ignore arms and back.

[mkh9]

To: ETeSelle,
Thank you for your Reply. Well, I am thinking about going back to physical therapy. The problem is I went to a PT for my back injury and got badly injured by a PT. I did go back to another PT but then he bruised my ribs doing manual therapy and I never got much help from him either. So I do have one I used in the past that was good but I'm still afraid. I don't know a good gym and worry that they would try to push me too fast considering I have the back problem plus frozen shoulder. But I agree it has to be weight bearing and walking. I am walking with 1 pound weights and doing exercises with 2 lb weights for my shoulder that my doctor gave me. I feel that little bit of weight hurts my back. But I'm doing it. My doctor said not to go up on the weights with my shoulder yet. So, I am kind of stuck. I am still unsure of what to do to more forward until my shoulder heals but I know I need to get moving more and I 'm really weak in the arms and all muscles really. Maybe I'll try to see the old PT that was good in the past. I have to get the courage up.
thanks,
Marieh9

[mkh9]

ETeSelle,
I just read your testimonial and you look awesome. Don't get too skinny! Seriously, you are starting to get on the thin side. I know you will laugh. I can't seem to loose much weight but my husband lost about 35 pounds. His BP went from 140/90 to 125/70 and BMI is about 21. His cholesterol was 260 but then he got on Crestor and Niaspan. He is having some problems on the drugs so with the Crestor cut in half he is at Chosterol 150. So, we still need to change the diet a bit. I found that Dr. McDougall's video said not to eat veggie burgers (darn) and eat more greens. Well, we probably don't eat as many greens to start ratio. We have a small salad with a large plate of spaghetti with wheat pasta for example. But there are lots of good days. We're still figuring it out. I noticed your HDL went down too as did ours. Our doctor doesn't understand that and thinks we are not doing well. I don't know how to explain that to him without getting him upset. Also, your triglycerides went up. Do you know why?
take care,
Marieh9

[ETeSelle]

ETeSelle,
I just read your testimonial and you look awesome. Don't get too skinny! Seriously, you are starting to get on the thin side. I know you will laugh.

That's typically what SAD eaters say. People these days are not used to seeing normal lean human beings b/c everyone is fat. A 5'-6" woman is SUPPOSED to weigh around 120. And the greatest health benefits accrue at the lower end of the BMI scale. I actually gained a few pounds (to 126 or so) and did not feel good at that weight. I'm on my way back down.

Also, your triglycerides went up. Do you know why?

My triglycerides were never high. It's a mistake to worry about small fluctuations--they are generally meaningless. The slight changes could be due to increased fruit consumption. But given that the number is still perfectly normal, it's nothing to worry about.

[mkh9]

ETeSelle,
I'm not sure was a SAD eater is? Yes I guess we are not used to being skinny. But I have weighted 128 all my life and I am 5'7". Until I got married and took birth control and gain about 4 pounds and it stayed there. Now that I am 51 I am about 136 today. I can't seem to get lower. I am not very active yet but will do what you said to try to get more active. It is a long road to recovery.
I didn't know the best health benefits are at the now end of the BMI. I think I felt good at 128. I have strong muscles back then and want to get them back badly. I have you to look up to. And others on here that have worked so hard to be where they are. I hope I can do it. I feel so lost after losing my job and being injured to the point were I couldn't go outside or even lift my leg to get in the shower (torn ligament). I have to let go of that and be able to keep going forward and forget the negative stuff that happened. It is hard.
Marieh9

[ETeSelle]

SAD=Standard American Diet.