Discussion Board

Hi Jeff...first let me say I really enjoy your lessons/talks/lectures. You have a great sense of humor, my kind of guy. Now to the question. I am confused (not unusual in my case), that while on one hand in the work of Dr. Batmanghelidj and as stated in, what is now considered by some to be a classic book "Your Bodies Many Cries For Water", he and many others suggests 1/4 teaspoon of high quality sea salt to every 32 oz of water and ideally consuming 1/2 your body weight in oz of water each day. There are a lot of testimonials regarding the miracles of this prescription. I am a huge fan of Dr. McDougall going back a decade or so and believe he has the answer to most of our countries health challenges. However, he and you also are exponents of a low salt/sodium diet for better health. So what's the deal?
I have much respect for both sides of the argument. Appreciate you comments on this...Thank you...Dave

Hi Dave,



I would also respect the other side of the argument, if there was one, but when you separate the marketing and advertising from the science, there isn't one.

Testimonials are great, but they should be supported by science because the internet is full of people offering testimonials on everything, including pure quackery. Star McDougallers are great, but it is the science behind their stories that is the most important as it helps us understand why it works. Their stories support the science and do not displace it.

Do you have any references of supporting science for any of the claims made about sea salt?

Without them, his argument, is a great promotion to consume his product, but not one to promote health.

First, while it is not the topic of this discussion, the formula for how much water one should drink is not accurate. So, his recommendations are based on a faulty premise.

Second, sodium chloride is sodium chloride and it does not matter if it comes from salt mines on land, or from the sea.

Third, while it is true that sea salt, has slightly less sodium per gram and has a few minerals, these are all completely irrelevant when you step back and put the claims in to perspective.

The Institute of Medicine, a branch of the National Academy of Sciences, recommends healthy people limit their sodium intake to no more than 1200-1500 mgs per day. The set an upper limit of 2300 mgs, meaning that if you go over that on a regular basis, it is harmful. They also recognize that a healthy human only needs around 240-300 mgs a day, which is easily obtainable from the amount that occurs naturally in foods.

A tsp of table salt is 2200 mgs of sodium. A tsp of Sea Salt is around 2000 mgs. Less, but as you can see, still a lot of sodium

Now according to the company Celtic Salt, a very popular promoter of sea salt, and based on the percentages they post on their website of the analysis of their product, a tsp of Celtic Sea Salt also contains

12 mgs of calcium
7 mgs of potassium
27 mgs of magnesium

The recommended amounts we need are

1000 mgs of calcium
4700 mgs of potassium
400 mgs of magnesium

So, in order for us to get in any significant amount of (less say 25% of the recommended amount)

Calcium, we would need to also take in 41,000 mgs of sodium
Potassium, we would need to also take in 335,000 mgs of sodium
Magnesium, we would need to also take in 7,407 mgs of sodium

So, in other words, the amount of sodium in the sea salt we would take in to get any significant amount of those minerals, would be extremely dangerous if not toxic.

And, small amounts of sea salt, would offer no benefit form the minerals.

My recommendations, as are Dr McDs are inline with the IOM and recommending the limit on total sodium.

If you choose to use sea salt as the source of your sodium, that is up to you, but it is not any healthier, safer, and/or more toxic than table salt.

In Health
Jeff Novick MS, RD

i have high blood pressure and my sodium and chloride have been slightly low for the last three years. Am I supposed to avoid salt or have some in the soy and braggs liquids. My home dr told me to add salt, my potassium was low also but it is good now. I just don't know what to eat and what to avoid. My dr won't talk to me unless I come in for a visit which is impossible since she is in Florida and I am in Arizona at the present time..

We are up at elevated heights right now...Grand Canyon and now Sedona Az so I don't know how that affects it. Probably about 4000 ft right now,lost track, we were at 7000 for the past three days and it didn't bother me. Did alot of walking and did cheat a bit but my pressure is back to normal today. It's not something I do all the time!

I am also wondering if adding grains is helping? I went for 9 months eating no grains at all and think i am doing better with this now...the brown rice seems to stabilize my blood pressure...

Nancy I bet your blood pressure dropped right after leaving that other website. lol.

If someone has high blood pressure, then limiting the amount of sodium is very important. Most of the sodium in the American food supply is in the form of salt, which is sodium chloride. However, limiting all forms of sodium is important, which would include Soy Sauce and also Braggs. Braggs has as much sodium in it as low sodium soy sauce.

Serum (blood) sodium has to be maintained and is important and there are many variables that can effect it including many medications and hormones. However sodium in the food you eat is not one of the main ones that effect it. Same with serum chloride levels.

The guidelines i presented in the label lecture do not ask anyone to avoid all sodium, but give guidelines on how to keep the level within safe limits. However, for someone with high BP, these limits become much more important.

You can review these guidelines here.

http://www.drmcdougall.com/forums/viewt ... ight=ratio

While not always and depending on the actual level, abnormal serum levels of sodium and/or chloride can sometimes reflect a serious condition, so you may want to consider getting them checked, even if it means seeing a local MD/clinic. There are walk in clinics all around the country who will easily, quickly and inexpensively run a basic blood panel for you, which is all they need for this.

While they appear somewhat different, if you look closely, Dr McDougalls longstanding recommendations for sodium and mine are almost identical. Either one will get you to the same place.

I guess you can say there is more than one way to peel a potato.

Wishing you well.

In Health
Jeff Novick, MS, RD

Jeff...

I have watched both your dvds on reading labels, have no processed food in the house, do use some soy sauce or Braggs Aminos.

I just had blood work done three weeks ago and my sodium is 131, chloride 92, my homocysteine level was 13.0. I had tests done 6 months ago and my potassium was low so one doctor had me take supplements and now it is back to 4.0.

Do I really need to have the tests done again so soon? And is there anything I can do about homocysteine levels? I have had bypass surgery (double) in 1994 and femoral bypass in 98, I guess I have had a long history of coronary artery disease....can't get health insurance so I try to do what I can as a self pay! Most doctors don't even want to see me...

not yet but hopefully!!!!! I think this high altitude is also affecting it....

A "little" bit of either one can have a "lot" of sodium. You may want to look into this.

1 TB of Soy Sauce is 1000 mgs, and 1 TB of Bragss is 660 mgs.



My comments are only in response to your comments in the above post. I don't know what was actually said by the MD.

While 131 is low it is not extremely low. I only meant that if it is something you, or your MD is really worried about, and wanted you to have checked, then you should have it checked. My comment was in response to your comment that there was no local MD. I just gave you a viable option, IF you needed one. but again, it is not a decision I can make.




Homocysteine levels can be lowered by following the McDougall program. Lack of folate (found in plants, especially beans and greens) and B6 (found in all plants) and B12 (which if you are 100% vegan with no B12 fortified foods, you may need to supplement) will *increase* homocysteine levels.

In Health
Jeff Novick, MS, RD

i found that I have been using ponzu sauce, the Kikkoman is 400 mg for 1 Tablespoon and I found another brand that is 370. I use a few drops for seasoning, not a tablespoon, another thing I was wondering was about some of the recipes in the McDougall books and the recommended sauces and salsas in the back. I don't usually buy them because of the sodium content. I have some Pace Picante sauce but hesitant to use it since 2 T (serving size) is 230 mg of sodium and the calories are 10. Is that within the guidelines?

if you go to this thread

http://drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6066

I go over the issue of condiments, sodium and exceptions to the guidelines

In Health
Jeff Novick, MS. RD

Thanks Jeff...

i think i understand it better now...I found a really low sodium salsa today, calories are 10, fat 0, sodium 40, serving size is 2 tablespoons...looks interesting...

That sounds great. Would you mind sharing the brand?

Thanks!

In Health
Jeff Novick, MS, RD

the brand is Santa Barbara roasted garlic with 40 mg per serving, fat 0, sugar <1 the website is sbsalsa.com


I also found a spice mix at the rv show...H&H brand 30 second salsa mix, sodium 60 mg per serving and you mix it with 1 can of no salt petite diced tomatos, makes 24 servings (15 oz) hnhbrands.com..

also the ponzu sauce I found was Mitsukan with 370 for 1 tablespoon, 5 calories, no fat!

Hope this helps!

Jeff,
Another low sodium salsa is Frog Ranch: 2TBL 10 calories, 40 mg sodium, 0 fat.

karenturtle

Thanks both of you!

I am always looking for new ones to put on my list so I can share them with others.

Thanks!
Jeff Novick, MS, RD