Gall bladder

[Werner1950]

Well, I started this WOE about 6 weeks ago, due to what turns out was a gall bladder attack. In other words, my body forced me in this direction, because eating fatty foods gave me terrible stomach pains.

I have eaten no meat since, and except for ongoing twinges where my gall bladder is, I have not had a recurrence. But I did go for an ultrasound 2 weeks ago and this morning the doctor's called The results are in, and he wants to discuss when would be the best time for gall bladder surgery.

From all my reading, it appears that gall bladder disease is not as easily reversible by diet than so man of these other issues. Next Wednesday I will meet with the surgeon. I will not let him book me for surgery yet, but I do want to hear his assessment of what he sees in that ultrasound.

So what are the implications if I do not have the gall bladder removed?

[Katydid]

Have you watched the following video?
Since switching to this WOE I have had zero gall bladder issues that weren't of my own making (for example eating a fatty vegan meal when eating out).

http://www.drmcdougall.com/video/mcdoug ... sease.html

Kate

[Acura]

I was in similar situation few years ago. I went on this WOE, lost 60 lbs in 1 year. Started getting GB attacks, I stayed the course, my doctor recommended surgery. I don't have GB attacks any more. I would stay on this diet for some more time and hopefully the attacks would go away.

[Werner1950]

Kate, yes, I did watch that video. He recommends that if there is no ongoing pain, then stick with the dietary approach.

I do have ongoing very mild pain. It is quite tolerable. Sometimes at night, I have to avoid sleeping on my right side though. And occasionally I feel something like a stitch in my side. So even though I have been 95% compliant with the Plan, I am not entirely asymptomatic. I am in a gray zone.

But I will report of what the surgeon says to me next Wednesday.

[Timaca]

I am somewhat in the same shoes gall bladder wise. I had significant pain after eating avocados, which I need for calories. My stools also became quite grayish. (Thank you Kate for suggesting it might be my gall bladder as I had no idea....)

I have not had an ultrasound, although I can have one at any time (my PCP and I have discussed the issue).

I am not keen on gall bladder surgery as I have read online of people having other issues once the gall bladder is out. So, I won't get an ultrasound or consider surgery unless things get bad again.

I am underweight now (BMI 17.5) and can't afford to lose more weight, in fact I should gain 10 pounds, which is really hard to do given the ED I'm working on and my GB being moody right now.

I, too, can have twinges after just 1/4 of an avocado, but for now I will live with that and hope things improve.

Please keep us posted.

Best,

[Gwen]

I would not let surgery scare you. I had my gallbladder taken out 5 yrs ago and have had no problems. I'd lost a lot of weight and my gallbladder was full of stones. Any more attacks and it could have gone very bad for me.
In this case, see what an ultrasound shows and trust your doctor.
Gwen

[Timaca]

I would not let surgery scare you. I had my gallbladder taken out 5 yrs ago and have had no problems. I'd lost a lot of weight and my gallbladder was full of stones. Any more attacks and it could have gone very bad for me.
In this case, see what an ultrasound shows and trust your doctor.
Gwen

Gwen~ I am happy to hear your good report about how well you have done after GB surgery. I hope I don't have to go that route, but it may be in my future, so it's good to know that others have done well post surgery.

Best,

[Werner1950]

I am not too concerned about the surgery itself. These days, it is almost day surgery if done laparoscopically). I am concerned about functioning without a gall bladder. If what McDougall says is correct, 50% of those who have surgery have ongoing problems with thier digestive system.

My question is,if the gall bladder is used to regulate the release of bile into the digestive tract, does that mean the flow of bile from the liver is unregulated?
Or is their no release of bile once the gall bladder is gone? I guess the doc will explain this. I will do some reading.

[nonstoppete]

The GB acts as a repository for bile. Without it, the liver releases bile into the digestive track. The bile acts as detergent to absorb fats and break them down. The small intestine is very efficient at capturing the bile and returning it to the liver.

I had my GB removed because of one minor and one severe attack 4 years ago. I've been on the McDougall plan for the past two years and would probably would have tried diet before having surgery given what I know now.

My surgeon basically said there was no immediate need for the surgery but it would allow me to avoid having an emergency surgery should a gallstone block a bile duct.

I was symptom free in between attacks.

I've had no issues since the surgery. I ate SAD for two years and had no digestive issues with fats etc. On a plant based diet, I've had no digestive issues relating to having no GB.

[Werner1950]

Thanks for your response. Since my attack, I have been on this plant based diet and haven't had any attacks, as such. But I have had stomach pains that come and go, and my stomach growls an awful lot.

So I do believe there is something is still not right; at least the doctor thinks so, and I will be seeing him next Wednesday. I am beginning to think this is not going to be fixed by natural means. I have a low level pain that shows up every day under my right rib cage.. something like a runner's stitch in my side.

[Sutra]

Based on my experience I can suggest some other questions to ask. I went to see my internist because of nausea. I had been experiencing severe heartburn and was self-treating it with a modified version of McDougall (e.g. no spices or acid fruits). The heartburn was controlled but the nausea was ever present. My internist sent me for an abdominal ultrasound and an endoscopy. The endoscopy showed severe gastritis, which the gastro md said explained the nausea. The abdominal ultrasound showed a gall stone so the internist wanted me to have my gall bladder removed. While I was waiting for the gastro md follow up appointment (actually just a few days) I researched the surgery online. Lots of people have ongoing problems after the surgery (after all, who else posts), and I wonder if anyone has done a good study of symptoms prior to vs post surgery to clarify the true impact. For example, the mayo clinic web site, which is my favorite for conventional medicine, said one study showed persistent post op diarhea in 1 out of 100 people, while another showed it in 1 out of 3. Finally I went to see the gastro md and he said that the report showed one large stone nowhere near the duct, so not likely to move because of size, and not likely to block the duct, because of location.

So I would ask if the location of the stone or stones is likely to block the duct, because i think thats the usual cause of emergency surgery. I would also ask if the type of stones you have make you a good candidate for medication to dissolve them. The medication is used frequently now for prevention in people who have gastric bypass surgery. Ask if your WOE makes it less likely that you'll form more stones (I'm not sure if there's a proven answer to that).

[BYPASSWIZ]

I had the surgery 15 yrs ago. If you have to have it . It is a peice of whole grain cake. I 've had tooth extractions that were worse.

[Werner1950]

OK, I said I would provide an update. The doctor read my ultrasound, and said my gall bladder is perfectly sound. No surgery required.

SO that leaves us with a mystery. Where is the pain coming from?

Next step - gastroscopy and colonoscopy on Sept 26.

He thinks it may be a celiac issue. I may be having a reaction to some foods..

On another note - I have my some blood test results, and there are three results that are lo.

He did not comment on them, but if anyone on the board can respond with the implications, and what I would need to do diet wise to improve my Hemoglobin. hematocrit and red cell count..

Here are the results
Hemoglobin - 128 (normal range should be 135-175)
Hematocrit 0.38 (Normal is .40-.50)
Red blood cell count - 4.24 (should be 4.50-6.00)

ALso, Alkaline phospahse reads 42 (normal is 45-129)


Werner

[Timaca]

OK, I said I would provide an update. The doctor read my ultrasound, and said my gall bladder is perfectly sound. No surgery required.

SO that leaves us with a mystery. Where is the pain coming from?

Next step - gastroscopy and colonoscopy on Sept 26.

He thinks it may be a celiac issue. I may be having a reaction to some foods..

On another note - I have my some blood test results, and there are three results that are lo.

He did not comment on them, but if anyone on the board can respond with the implications, and what I would need to do diet wise to improve my Hemoglobin. hematocrit and red cell count..

Here are the results
Hemoglobin - 128 (normal range should be 135-175)
Hematocrit 0.38 (Normal is .40-.50)
Red blood cell count - 4.24 (should be 4.50-6.00)

ALso, Alkaline phospahse reads 42 (normal is 45-129)


Werner

Hi Werner~
I would suggest that you keep a food and symptom diary so you can pinpoint whether or not a food or foods are causing your symptoms. My food diary is pretty simple: an 8 1/2 by 11 spiral notebook. I draw a line down the center of the page and put food recorded on the left side (and amount of food eaten), along with time eaten. I then record symptoms on the right hand side of the page. I write how I'm doing at the time that I eat. If anything changes before I eat the next time, then it gets recorded too, along with the time.

It was by this method that I figured out whole (and even half) avocados eaten at once gave me pain.

If wheat is giving you problems (or other gluten containing foods--rye, barley, and some oats) then you might notice pain, gas or bloating when you eat them.

Since your Hgb and Hct are low, you may be anemic. So, you may be losing blood somewhere, not getting enough iron in your diet or not absorbing the iron you are getting.

Further tests are indicated. Some to consider: a stool test for blood in the stools, an iron absorption test to see if you are absorbing iron, and a B12 level to see where you are with that. (Some people who are low in iron are also low in B12 if absorption issues are a problem).

I like using Lab Tests Online for info on blood results. Here is some info on your alkaline phosphatase test.

You can look up your other test results there too.

Best,

[Werner1950]

Hi Werner~
I would suggest that you keep a food and symptom diary so you can pinpoint whether or not a food or foods are causing your symptoms. My food diary is pretty simple: an 8 1/2 by 11 spiral notebook....
Best,

Thank you for your response. Personally, I do not think it is celiac.. i.e. the pain is very low level, tolerable but fairly constant, (yet irritating) so at this point I doubt it is food related. But we shall see. I will monitor more closely to see if I can detect any correlation with diet.

Werner