Thank you very much. You have put a lot of time into this and it provides me with a lot of material to "chew on." I am printing this out so I can study it item by item, without losing track.
Well, I did some searching, but didn't come up with much.
Yes, that was my experience too.
Yes, I have read it twice, but I will re-examine it. Nevertheless, alas, I note only now that despite having read the article before, I now see that what he calls Renal Acid Load is the same as Potential Renal Acid Load in the much longer list I am using (from John F. Berardi's site), that is, the expected acidity produced in the body after consumption, not the acidity of the food. His very brief list correlates perfectly with my experiences: avoid all animal products (except fats, which I wouldn't want anyway) and "seeds" (in the widest sense of that term).
You may need to go to the source he uses to assess the amount of sulfur-containing amino acids in assorted foods. I can find listings of foods that are considered to be a good source of this or that amino acid or sulfur generally, but nothing comprehensive.
That was my experience.
For instance, cysteine is "Found in Soyabeans, brewer's yeast (GTF), cashews (nuts), Brazil Nuts, peanuts (roasted), wheat germ, wheatgerm, peas, seed, dry, peanut butter, peanuts, sole fish, horse mackerel, sunflower seeds, wheat bran, oatmeal, oat meal, oats rolled, almonds, roasted (nut), chicken breasts, poultry, turkey, pork liver, oats without husk, whole grain, milk dried skimmed, pork muscles only, mullet, turkey young with skin, meat, chicken liver, sheep's liver, whole egg, eggs, crayfish, small lobster, oatmeal, rolled oats, beef, sirloin steak, pork chops, chicken for roasting, salmon, flesh, tuna, flesh, mutton,"
(bold added) Every
item on this list falls into either animal products (except fats like butter) or "seeds" in the widest sense. So, perhaps a high level of cysteine
is my prime suspect, at this point.
is "Found in: bean, eggs, pork, fried liver, Brazils, Parmesan Cheese, skim Milk, flounder baked, tuna canned in oil drained, Edam Cheese, lamb, trout (Raw), sesame seeds, salmon canned pink, soya flour, turkey, Fish Cod (canned), pumpkin seeds, sunflower seeds, Pepitas, sesame seeds, sirloin steak, chicken breasts, roast beef, onions, garlic
, lentils, soybeans, yoghurt, cooked prawns, cooked liver, calf liver, cottage cheese, chicken liver, boiled eggs, roast veal, pistachios, cashews, walnuts, peanuts, chickpeas, almonds, Lima beans, yoghurt, buttermilk, brown rice."
Source: http://www.hypoglycemia.asn.au/articles ... ients.html
With the exception of the garlic and onions, all
these foods fall into either of the two categories of animal products or "seeds." So, perhaps methionine is also a top suspect.Not clear to me
: Of all the 20 or so amino acids, did you look at cysteine and methionine because they are ranked highest in containing sulfur? (Perhaps you have already answered this, but I missed it.)
The following chart for sources of methionine shows up repeatedly; I haven't seen anything comparable for cysteine:
· Cottage cheese (dry) 1,200 mg/cup
· Cottage cheese (crmd) 854 mg/cup
· Fish & other seafoods 2,000-3,500 mg/lb
· Meats 750-2,500 mg/lb · Poultry 1,500-2,000 mg/lb
· Peanuts, roasted w skin 640 mg/cup
· Sesame seeds 1,400 mg/cup · Dry, whole lentils 350 mg/cup http://www.springboard4health.com/noteb ... onine.html
As before, all these rich sources are either animal products or "seeds."
Rich sources of sulfur: "The main food in which sulfur is found are meats, fish, poultry, eggs, milk, and legumes are all good sources. Egg yolks are one of the better sources of sulfur. Other foods that contain this are onions, garlic, cabbage, Brussels sprouts, and turnip
s. Nuts have some, as do kale, lettuce, kelp
and other seaweed
, and raspberries
."http://www.online-family-doctor.com/min ... ulfur.html
I have put in bold the ones that don't fit the animal-products/seeds pattern. I have never had a reaction from the bold items. (I haven't tested kelp or other seaweed.) Judging from the quoted description, I would say the author is saying one can also get sulfur from these foods, but they aren't the highest in concentration.
I ran across this other chart but I'm not quite sure how to read it. I can't believe that there are as many sulfur-containing amino acids in fruit, gram for gram, as there are in animal products. It must mean per gram of protein, don't you think?
That makes the most sense to me.
This would also indicate that nuts and seeds (or the protein from nuts and seeds, if my reading is correct) have a higher concentration of these amino acids than animal products.
That makes a lot of sense to me, given my experiments. The reactions I got from a cup of soy were far worse than from a cup of cottage cheese, for example. "Seeds" of all kinds are, I suspect, highly concentrated sources of ... some things ... precisely because a whole plant starts to grow from them.
A search to see if legumes or nuts/seeds had any link to osteoporosis or calcium leaching turned up negative, however. I see plenty of folks recommending these items because they contain things that are GOOD for your bones, like magnesium. So I'm not at all sure that, at least for osteoporosis, it is a simple matter of all sources of sulfur-containing amino acids being bad for you. Of course, the concentration of protein in animal products is usually higher, too.
But the problem for me is not osteoporosis. I have zero symptoms of osteoporosis. X-rays over the years have shown zero deterioration. One long-term physician checked specifically for that condition when I had the "hip" pain--that later turned out to be piriformis not bone pain. The piriformis (and a whole bunch of other tissues) were inflammed; bone was not degenerating. In 63 years of activity ranging from martial arts to running on concrete, I have had only three fractures and no broken bones. The three fractures (two hands and one foot) came from one incident in which I flew over the handlebars of my bike as I was zooming down a steep hill and hit a nearly invisible chuckhole. Only my landing gear fractured. (Grrr!)
Have you ever tried to neutralize acidic plant foods when you eat them? If the problem is that your body has difficulty neutralizing acids you consume, and the acids in turn create your assorted -itis problems, could you help the process along?
I am not sure what you mean. An orange is acidic. If I eat it, my body, if healthy, would normally neutralize the acid, by quickly breaking it down into non-acidic components, right? No, I have no trouble with that. Acidic foods as such do not seem to cause me any reaction. Citrus fruit is an example. Zero adverse reaction. So, I assume my neutralizing ability is intact.
Also, I wonder how strong your bones are (no calcium to spare?)
Very strong, as implied above.
Many people are deficient in magnesium, which affects how much calcium they can absorb. What is your daily intake like?
I don't know. I will look into this. I do know that my general supplement, which I take every four days (for B12) is very low for magnesium compared to RDA or DV. I haven't got a clue about how much magnesium comes from my diet of fruit, veggies, roots and gourds. But since this issue relates to boneloss, which I don't have, this will be second priority for now.
[...] I throw out these ideas for your consideration. [...]
Thank you very much. Overall, you have confirmed that the categories-- animal products (except fats) and "seeds" (in the most general sense)--correlate with two suspects, mainly cysteine and methionine. Confirmation is good.
My tentative ("working") hypothesis now, thanks to your info, is that foods that either contain a lot of sulfur-rich amino acids (cysteine and methionine) are foods for me to avoid. That "lot of" is two-fold. It can refer to total amount for the large quantity usually eaten (say, a cup of cottage cheese) or
highly concentrated for foods normally eaten in smaller quantities.
In other words, if sulfur compounds are the problem, I could cross a threshold by either (1) eating a relatively large amount of a somewhat less concentrated food like cottage cheese, or (2) a even small amount of a more concentrated food like soybeans. At any rate, I need to avoid eating any amount of either, to be on the safe side.
Thank you, DianeR, you have given me what I was seeking: a mentally "bite-size" idea that I can follow and test. I hope you have gained something from all this effort you have invested. Best,