Discussion Board

So, I can eat as much white flour as I want! and still get good results on this diet?

How much do you want???

And why would you want to?

As long as "as much as you want" is "a little." (I know you're being a troll, but I feel the need to quote anyway). In The Starch Solution, p. 178, "Used appropriately, [sugar] is a helpful addition to your kitchen arsenal." Later on the same page, "sprinkle a little", "add a bit", and "A little sugar" all indicate that you can have some. So if "as much as you want" of sugar is a sprinkle, then go for it.

The only place I saw white flour mentioned in The Starch Solution is on page 197, in the "Shelf-Stable Foods" list. The heading for this list says, "Keep the following shelf-stable foods in your pantry and you will always be prepared with the components to make a quick meal or snack, and the flavorings and condiments to give your foods flavor and variety." White flour is a component. Nowhere on that list does it say, "eat as much of these components as you want."

I agree frozenveg.

Though it was easy for me to give up sugar 10 years ago, I have struggled with white flour all along. I am trying again. This time I might find a way to succeed. While low white flower might not be harmful and toxic, it is addictive and I could over eat it.

I am keen to know how your experience on how you keep it under control as a component without turning it into a meal.

Well, while I was in the losing phase I was on MWL--so there was no refined white flour products for me, except in a few very rare cases of eating a piece of bread at a restaurant. Now that I'm at my desired weight, I have bread a bit more, but only 100% whole grain, and not daily. As far as white flour, I don't use it myself, but I think in some of Mary's recipes, unbleached white flour could be used as a thickener in a stew, or something like that. That would never turn into the whole meal for me! I don't actually like white flour's taste all that much, except at a thickener. When I do bake, I use whole wheat pastry flour. I don't bake dessert-type things too often--possibly 4 times a year--because I would overeat on those kinds of things. I made a carrot cake for Easter, and it was 2 layers--way too much for all of us, and I ended up throwing half of it away. It was very delicious, but the second layer was too moist and never really set up right. I won't be making anything like that any time soon...

frozenveg, how do you know that the bread at the restaurant or any bread that you purchase does not contain vegetable oil?

My white flour consumption has been mainly from the bread that I purchase. But now, that I am on the MWL, I am off bread all together. Very much like you, I wil re introduce it after I achieve my weight. I remain concerned that I might end up overheating bread and regain weight.

I don't know, and that's a problem. I've only done that a few times--when I got to a restaurant hungry, and everyone else ordered appetizers, so I knew it would be a while before I could get something--even hot tea--to consume, and the bread basket was already there. Much safer option than the greasy chips & salsa, or the fried mozzarella sticks that everyone else ordered.

Usually, though, french bread and sourdough bread has no oil, so they are a pretty good bet. I can't stand sourdough, though.

What you may find, as I did, is that when you've given up bread and baked goods totally for a long period of time--a year and a half for me--it becomes less of a go-to food. So it's no longer a habit for me, ans even when it's in the house, I don't think of having it. I also try to restrict myself to having one piece of dry toast (the two breads I buy are Great Harvest Honey Whole Wheat and Dave's Killer bread, the ones with no oil), and that is very tasty, but not appetite-stimulating.

frozenveg, I just read your full testimony and it is very inspiring. Thanks for sharing it. Dr McDougall has authored only an snippet. Good on you mate for your success. I am just overwhelmed.

Thanks so much! One of the reasons I was eager to get my testimonial out there was for people to see that this way of eating can be done not just in sunny, warm climes in the US, but even in remote, rural areas where it's cold most of the time. I will be glad if I can help other people come to realize that this is a very straightforward and simple way of living, and it can save their lives!

frozenveg,

1) Could you elaborate on your weightloss rate.

How often did you weigh yourself?
How many Kg did you lose weekly?
Was the loss consistent throughout the period?

2) Another question, while you were on the MWL programme, did you have any fruit?

3) When you ate outside the house, how did you manage to order brown rice and not white rice. Most of the asian eateries in my area serve white rice only.

Kind Regards

I weigh myself (still do) every morning, just after getting up and in my nightgown (so the same weight of clothing), but I charted and counted only what I weighed every Friday. In the first 6 months, my losses averaged about .84 kg per week (that's 1.85 lbs.--I had to resort to the online calculator, as we are not taught the conversions here very well!), and after a year, it was closer to an overall average of about .61 kg, or 1.35 pounds, a week. My losses were pretty consistent--more in the first few weeks (7 lbs., 3.175kg, the first week, and then never more than 3.5 lbs, 1.58 kg, the rest of the time). I had weeks when I didn't lose a thing--November 2010, when I tried a bunch of Thanksgiving recipes, for instance--and weeks where I gained a little.

Yes, I ate 2 fruits a day the whole time, sometimes a third. I tried to keep it to fresh as much as possible, though I did have some raisins, applesauce and craisins a few times. I have a bit more dried fruit now on occasion. I still average about 2.5 to 3 fruits servings a day.

And the answer to the restaurant question is that I didn't get brown rice, except for one miraculous restaurant one time. White rice is acceptable if nothing else is available, even Dr. M says so:
http://www.drmcdougall.com/video/mcdoug ... ments.html
http://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2011nl/ ... starch.htm

And it is important for me to say that I ate in restaurants perhaps 25 times in 2 years, and most of the time I resorted to a cold lettuce salad and cup of hot tea, or oatmeal and a banana. I no longer expect to get a meal at a restaurant--I go simply to be with whoever needs/wants to go there, and if I have a nibble while I'm there, that's fine.

Cheers, frozenveg

Thanks frozenveg for your enlightening response. It is greatly and dearly appreciated. It is my second week in this starch solution. And I am already full on starch and managed to avoid the no-no's. I have however regained 1kg... I will be starting a new discussion topic in relation to that as it is not appropriate under 'white flour and sugar'. Watch out for my new topic and I will be looking for your feedback.

Do you mind that I ask you further questions:

1) For your green salad, what sauce do you make/use ?
In my unhealthy vegan days, I use to spray my salad with olive oil and add avocado - in addition to lemon and other natural condiments. Now, I am not sure how to eat my salad.

2) Can you find raisins without vegetable oils? Do I need to look harder?


Cheers

I tried several dressing recipes before I found one that has the taste I love--some were very bland to me, and some were just...off. I love this one fmor the Nov 2009 newsletter (I highly recommend looking at every back issue of newsletter for the recipes and the articles!)

http://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2009nl/dec/recipes.htm

Perfect No-Oil Balsamic Dressing By Chad Sarno

Servings: makes about 1 ½ cups
1 cup balsamic vinegar
1/3 cup shoyu or tamari (omit and add equivalent balsamic if avoiding sodium)
3 tablespoons maple syrup
3 tablespoon nutritional yeast
2 tablespoons Dijon mustard
1 tablespoon onion powder
1 clove garlic, minced
½ teaspoon vegan Worcestershire sauce
Minced fresh herbs of choice (see hints below)
Combine all ingredients in a blender jar and process until thoroughly mixed.
Hints: Try a variety of fresh herbs, such as rosemary, oregano, chives, or use just one of your favorites. This will keep in the refrigerator for at least a week.

If you don't care for balsamic dressing, use another vinegar or even lemon juice instead. I don't add any herbs--I love this just as it is. This is just a more elaborate version of the 3-2-1 dressing that many people use: 3 parts vinegar, 2 parts honey or other sweetener, 1 part mustard. (When I first saw this, I had to ask about vegan Worcestershire--I didn't know there were anchovies in regular W. Sauce!)

And on your second question--I use either the organic raisins from the bulk health food section of my store, or get Sunmaid organic raisins in a big box from Costco. The ingredient is just raisins. I'm always appalled when they add oil to the dried fruit--I had to give away a bag of dried cherries I bought without looking at the ingredients first! Boo!

I will now go to see your new thread!

Thanks frozenveg; specially for the salad dressing. I will opt for the lemon as I am not keen on venigar (and neither alcohol by choice).

As you know lemon is acidy and maple syrup is sweet and they do not combine nicely as each component requires different PH level for breaking down. Hence, a stalemate is reached and as a result fermentation (and alcohol with no choice) is produced ... Eventually the intelligent body will get out of this mess. But I do not want to burden it down.

Over the past 10 years, I avoided acidy/sweet food combination as I know from first hand experience the impact thereof. I used to suffer from strong acid reflux (because of this incompatbile combination and my stomch valve was abused during my standard Western diet upbringing.)

My question to you whether you ever bothered with this combination and food combination in general.

Cheers