Discussion Board

Hello all,

could anyone help me find out what could be the cause of the following problem: If I am strict about eating McDougall style, I feel very good for some time, but then I encounter the following problems:

- thinking becomes very hard
- I feel spaced out
- I become very tired all the time, could sleep all day
- my digestive capacity lowers, i.e. I can digest less food
- my hands become cold and I feel cold overall
- I become very weak, i.e. walking up stairs becomes a challenge

In order to overcome this, I need to eat something that is high in EFAs, like sardines etc. Have other people had similar problems? Have they overcome them and how?

Thanks a lot in advance for your help

Hans, sorry you have not been feeling well.

First, have you recently reduced or eliminated caffeine?

Second, are you eating enough??? If you are not taking your time to eat big meals of veggies with plenty of STARCHES 3-5x/day, you are probably not eating enough. This is a common problem for newbies.

Your body is probably also adjusting to your new high fiber diet. Give it some time. Chew your food thoroughly and be patient.

Coldness may be related to the lower caloric intake. I am quite familiar with this. It bothers me in the winter but it is not bad in the summer!

I would not recommend ANY animal products to alleviate your symptoms. If the sardines make you feel better, it may be because you simply were not getting enough fuel without them!

Enjoy your starches and keep us posted!

Thank you for your reply, pinkrose!



I haven't had any coffee or tea for over half a year now. Even before that I've never been a big friend of them.



I eat three meals a day and calorie-wise I should be eating enough. I'm already stuffing myself somewhat, actually... Eating more than three meals would be hard / impossible many days because of work. Anyway, if I eat more frequently I tend to eat smaller meals, otherwise I'll be eating on a still half-full stomach which isn't really helping me feel better...



The thing is, it gets so bad that I can't possibly work in such a state, so waiting is not an option...



I wish I were living in a tropical place...



I did try to stuff myself even more, but that didn't do the job, unfortunately...

Does anybody else have any ideas on how to fix this problem? I wouldn't like to go back to eating oils / fish because a lot of problems I had before have disappeared. On the other hand I can't sleep all day.

OK, Hans, would you describe your exercise program?

I do body-by-science-like bodyweight / kettlebell exercise (one-armed pushups or kettlebell presses, one legged squats) and kettlebell swings as tabatas once a week each. I also stretch after these exercises. Besides that I walk a lot (an hour a day or more.) I'm thinking about starting to jog again, but I need some energy for that.

Can you give us an example of what a typical eating day might look like for you?

My guess is, you could probably benefit from increasing the caloric density of your diet. I've experienced various times in my McDougall journey where I wasn't able to eat enough low calorie dense foods to meet my nutritional needs (by low calorie dense foods i mean veggies, fruit, cooked intact whole grains, potatoes etc.). I ended up supplementing my diet with whole grain flour products, puffed rice cakes, some dried fruit, nuts etc.. so that I could eat more calories, and digest more food, without experiencing the uncomfortable sensations of being over-stuffed or full at meals. It worked very well for me.

Jeff discusses calorie density at length. It is usually used as a tool for weight loss in people, but can be just as easily used as a tool that will help you to increase your caloric density and feel more energetic without having to eat more food volume.

Thanks, lfwfv (not sure how to pronounce your name )

I eat something like 400g of grains (barley, oats, rice, millet, corn, rye most of the time) or sweet potatoes (love them but expensive here) and some kind of legumes (I guess something like 150-200g a day, not sure.) Then I eat one piece of fruit (think an apple), a good deal of vegetables for lunch and dinner.

I drink 0.5l of juice mixed with 0.5l of water, as well as 1l of homemade sweetened lemonade. Those do add a bunch of calories.

Right now I have some fish oil with breakfast, a small piece of fish or poultry with my lunch, and some olives with my dinner in order to keep me going.

I used to also eat some dairy (>1% fat.) That made it a lot easier to stay vegetarian for longer without becoming a mess, actually.

All weights indicated are dry mass of uncooked produce.


Calorie density... Something like bread, rice, pasta? I make flatbread from barley, oats, and rye. The other cereals I cook with water, so that's a bit less calorie-dense. Otherwise I'm not sure what kinds of food would be more calorie dense...

Dry fruit / nuts / seeds mess up my digestion (think bloating -> explosion, accompanied by major discomfort), so I avoid them. Aren't nuts / seeds too oily by McDougall reasoning?

Hi Hans.

For all the info on the McDougall WOE click on "Clinic" at the top left and then the link for the "Free McDougall Program" at the bottom. It walks you through everything. I've used this for getting started, and then all of the advice here in the discussion boards.

Also, you should go to a site like "cronometer.com" where you can input the foods you're eating and get exact data on calories and nutrients rather than just guessing.

I was really surprised at just how nutritous a simple meal like potatoes and rice can be. I was also really surprised at how much fat 1 ounce of walnuts contains!

People in general hold beliefs about food but have no idea what the actual data about food is. If I had a nickel for everytime someone asked me, "You're a vegetarian? But where do you get your protein!!??" I'd have exactly $24.85 right now...Veggies and grains actually have a lot of protein...

Thanks, danmc.

I've done just that so far, checked the free program.

On those pages, I didn't find any mention of nuts and (oily) seeds, but I thought they're out as most of their calories come from fat. So are they?

Personally I use this website:

http://nutritiondata.self.com/

It's very handy and shows you the percentages of calories from each of the macronutrients in a graphic.

I don't know about protein, it may be a question of digestibility rather than content. In my limited experience, it seems to be more of an EFA problem than a protein problem. Maybe I'll need to let it happen again and just try the fish oil and then I'll know

Lfwfv stands for low fat whole food vegan

If the measurements of grain etc. are indeed dry, you are probably getting in excess of 200 calories per day, which is likely enough, but might not be if you exercise a great deal.

Juice and lemonade may add calories, but the calories are burned off quickly and won't lead to a feeling of satiety or long-term energy/sustenance.

Yes, I mean eat more whole grain breads, dried products (like popcorn, rice cakes etc. as they fill provide calories without adding a lot of bulk), and possibly some dried fruit. Dr. McDougall and Jeff allow around 1-2oz of nuts/seeds per day if you have no health problems and are at a healthy weight.

Fish products and oil are not recommended on this program.

Hans-maybe you need some B12. since we went vegan --over a year ago-- I read about vegans needing to take vitamin b12. so we were taking sublingual B 12. but recently i found out that the b12 we were taking was the inferior form ==cyanocobalamin.. so we switched to the superior form--the type that nourishes the brain [ the methylcobalamin type ] a few weeks ago i looked into vit b 12 shots because i started reading all this stuff about how low B 12
can affect memory & the brain...and energy levels. i read that B12 can be lowered or depleted by stress and alcohol. I read that seniors who are forgetful & who fall can have low B12.
we haven't fallen [ yet ]- but we were forgetting things! i also have read that even if you are not vegan
or vegetarian you can become low or deficient in B 12 due to absorbtion problems. I read that like 40% of
people over age 60 have low B12. Then i saw that our local Sprouts health food store offers B12 shots given by a woman naturopath on Saturdays.
we have each gotten a B12 shot the last 3 Saturdays.

now we'll get one a month for about 3 months. we really do feel better --we feel mentally clearer and we have just a feeling of greater well being. I highly recommend them.

You can't overdose-the liver stores B12 but when it can not store more B12, it just gets excreted in the urine.

Thanks for clarifying the nut issue!
I try eating more but it does make me feel uncomfortable.

shell-belle,

thanks for the tip! Actually I tried B12 shots a few years ago and they didn't do anything to me. Unfortunately! I do have a tendency towards forgetfulness. I'm relatively young though (early 30s)... If I can't solve this issue otherwise, I'll give B12 another shot.

You don't need to take shots--just take a sub-lingual B12 tablet a few times a week. Choose those made w/ methylcobalamin, not cyanocobalamin.

right--you do not need to take shots - but they do make you feel better FASTER i think that taking the sublingual B12 [ the methyl kind ]. we are taking the methyl sublingual now and will keep on doing so. and in another month we'll get another shot and maybe 2 more shots in the 2 months after that. all the while taking the sublingual.