Discussion Board

Before I get started writing about my latest half marathon experience, I want to ask all of you, do you have any endurance events you are training for? If so, what is the event?

Ok. This morning I completed my second half marathon.

As I mentioned over in the Lounge on this thread, Good Luck to Spiral, I took about a week break from running due to IT band/knee issues on my left side.

I was hoping that the rest (a) wouldn't cause me to lose much in the way of conditioning and that (b) as a result of the rest I would be able to get through most of the race without any pain in my left knee.

As it turns out, I think both (a) and (b) turned out to be wrong assumptions. I will say that the weather was a little hotter, in the high 60s, whereas it was in the low 40s in the Carmel half marathon. But it was much, more humid, about 90 percent to 95 percent humidity.

It was very crowded, being the largest half marathon in the United States, about 35,000 runners and walkers. If you wanted to run at a steady pace in this race, it would take concentration, because you would always have to be weaving around people.

In some races it is crowded for the first few miles. In this race it was crowded for the entire 13.1 miles.

About 3 miles in, I thought I might do okay. My left knee wasn't hurting (yet). But I wasn't really fired up about running faster than 9 minute miles.

Then the knee pain kicked in and the fatigue kicked in. So, for the first 7 or so miles, I ran at about a 9:30 min/mile pace, or thereabouts. I probably ran a 11:45 min/mile pace on average for the last 6 or so miles.

My official time was 2:16:20.

Overall, as I look back at the last 6 months of training I have done, I am a little disappointed, but not too much. For the most part, I think I have gained valuable experience as a half marathon runner.

I know that I trained too vigorously. I just put too many demands on my body. So, I ended up with some impressing training runs. But my two half marathons performances suffered, I believe, as a result of the injury/fatigue caused by the overly demanding training. I will know better next time that sometimes "less is more" when it comes to training for a half marathon.

I will, however, be taking at least a month and possibly as long as three months off of running. A complete break.

Why?

Because I want this left IT band/knee issue to be completely gone before I get back into training for another half marathon. And since the pain is not present when I am walking, since the pain is often not present during the first couple miles of my runs, since 7 days of rest wasn't enough to "cure" this problem, I think I need more extended time off.

I can't wait to start training for another half marathon. But there's no point in being in denial. My left knee needs a rest. If it isn't rested, I won't be able to accomplish my goals which are (a) have fun running and (b) get faster at the half marathon.

I'm a running junkie. But I haven't completely lost my mind.

Congrats.

Maybe with the knee problem you could take a look at barefoot running. It's supposed to be easier on the knees.

http://www.americaspodiatrist.com/2009/ ... -problems/

Something to consider anyway, as you mend.

Congratulations on completing your second half-marathon! It sounds like you definitely learned more about what you need to do in your training and race preparation. As a person who's barely dipped her toes into running, I found Bingham's book, "Marathoning for Mortals", an interesting read. He had to learn the hard way not to totally overdo his training, especially as an older person.

Interesting that Agnes mentioned the barefoot running. I finally picked up a pair of the Vibram 5-fingers shoes after having seen them for years. I never did before due to foot issues. Heck, I have custom made orthotics for my feet. However, I finally got them as I'm hoping to strengthen the entire foot/ankle area and perhaps resolve some of my foot issues over time. I'm not sure whether I'll ever be running long distances in them but might.

My husband was intrigued by them and picked up a pair, too. He's the real runner in the family, having done a 50K some years ago. Now he's more interested in short distances and speed. After he does his 10K tomorrow he told me he's going to start working into running in the 5-fingers shoes. It's a S-L-O-W build-up to allow the muscles, tendons, and ligaments to strengthen gradually wthout injury....

...which would mean your 3 months off would possibly be a great time for you to explore running in minimalist shoes. Neither of us ever intend to do barefoot running. In the HOT desert with cactus and inch-long thorns on mesquite branches, it's just not practical. However, the shoes provide enough protection. You could get a pair now and slowly build up to doing your walks in them. There's good info here along with great strength-building exercises and stretches for the feet in the downloadable guide (upper left on the page).

Spiral, I am glad you survived! Please consider pursuing more moderate exercise that will enable you to enjoy a high level of health and fitness without so much pain! You do not want to be limping when you are 100!

Rest!

Congratulations on another 13.1!
I'm an endurance junkie myself training for and racing off-road: running, mountain biking and triathlon. Have you tried foam rolling for your IT band? A lot of people with IT band issues sear by it. Many running sources have instructions. Also, since you reflected on how your training may have led to it, I highly suggest you check out the work of Dr. Phil Maffetone. His nutrition advice doesn't match what we have here, but his heart rate based training method has worked very well for me since I switched last year.

http://www.philmaffetone.com/home.cfm

vgpddlr,

I have tried a little of the foam roller treatment. I probably didn't do enough of it to see if it would work for me. Same for the other treatments. I tried a little of everything and so now I can't complain that nothing worked because I didn't give it enough of a chance.

As for the heart rate based training, that's interesting that you bring that up.

Last November some relatives of mine purchase me a 23 week training plan and online coaching with QT2, a Boston based online coaching group. They subscribe to the heart rate zone philosophy.

However, they assigned me heart rate zones that were so low that I could hardly lift my feet off of the ground without elevating my heart rate above the upper limit of the zone. To be fair, this was a problem with the "recovery zone," which was only for recovery runs. But they assigned me 2 or 3 recovery runs each week, in addition to rest days.

And the next heart rate zone up from recovery also required me to run very slow. In addition, they never had a discussion with me about what my goals were for the half marathon I was training for. I think they should have said, "You finished your last 5K race in 24 minutes and 31 seconds. Based on that, we think you might be able to finish a half marathon in X hours and Z minutes if you get in some base training and a small amount of speedwork."

But there was none of that.

I tried to run one "recovery run" staying in the assigned heart rate zone of 106 beats per minute to 126 beats per minute and ended up running a 12:43 minute/mile pace.

It was so awkward running that slow. So, I stopped following their program and tried to borrow some ideas from Hal Higdon's web site and some other online coaching web sites. In the end, however, I always ended up adding miles and adding intensity, beyond what was recommended. So, I over-trained and underperformed.

Going forward, I don't think I want to hire a coach. I just want do better with the free coaching advice that is available online and elsewhere. When I get back into running, which will likely be in July or August, I will do some of my runs with a runners' club here in Indianapolis. See if I can learn from some of the veteran runners.

Spiral --

Congratulations on your completing the half marathon. I'm winded reading about it.

Have you heard of Chi Running? Just Google it and it will take you to them. They claim to correct form to be injury free. Lots of hopefully helpful information there, a lot of it free, a newsletter, training get-togethers, instructor courses and now an online training feature. I signed up for the newsletter to forward it to my son, who is a runner. They also have a Chi Walking part.

Good luck. I hope it helps.

Velvet

Very cool and good job. Hope the knee comes along...

I've been fortunate in that I've been injury free... other than the occasional side trip off of some cliff on my motorcycle and the occasional niggle from a slight meniscus tear in my R knee (that I was able to treat with rehab and lots of exercise)

Did the SLO Marathon at the last minute, only trained for it for a month or so so I was just happy to finish. I've always preferred running short and fast so a marathon is a bit of a chore. Couldn't have done it if I hadn't lost over 100 lbs in the last few months. Lucky for me some of my past athletic ability hung around after 10 years of being asleep and 100 lb gain.

You did great...

I know what you mean in terms of the appeal of shorter races. I like the 5K distance and the 10K distance. A little easier to train for, I think.

Seems like you have dealt with some real injuries. As for me, I was thinking about getting an MRI on my left knee, but haven't made my mind up.

The main reason why I lean against having an MRI is that I doubt the trouble with my left knee is very serious. I can walk with no pain and just a little bit of stiffness. If I really needed to, I could run, but the pain level is just enough to make me want to avoid it.

So, I doubt I have any kind of tear in a ligament or a break in a bone. I think there could just be some inflammation of tissue that rest will take care of.

I would feel like I was overreacting if I got an MRI on my left knee when it really isn't hurting bad at all.



The advice on barefoot running and Chi Running is interesting. I have heard some runners swear by barefoot running as intensely as McDougallers swear by the McDougall diet.

As for Chi Running, I read a book on Chi Running last year and have tried to incorporate some of the ideas behind it into my running form.

I was able to stay injury free from about June of 2011 through January 2012. It was only when I took a break from running for about a week and tried to start up again, when I had an issue with my left knee. But that issue went away after about four days of rest.

So, I think things will fall into place. But with running no one ever really knows how far away from injury one is.

I believe that both of my minor injuries, the one I came down with in May 2011 and this knee issue, both of them were/are a result of putting too many demands on my body. Too much intensity.

It's hard for me sometimes to avoid increasing the intensity when I have a goal that I want to reach. But you can't reach a goal when you are injured. And sometimes beginner/intermediate runners can set their goals too high.

I'll give the MRI idea more thought.

Didn't realize it was you commenting on my blog about heart rate training. I'll just add that you do get faster at low intensities. I've improved almost three minutes per mile at my 140 bpm heart rate. Famous triathlete Mark Allen had the same experience, then went on to crush Ironman Hawaii six times. As a triathlete, I don't run consecutive days very often, and that keeps me injury free. But I did have a little knee discomfort some time back. I heard from numerous sources that knee issues are usually related to tight hip flexors. So I spent some time stretching them with various lunges and it helped a lot. But you're right: injury results from too much volume or intensity too soon. Heal well, and come back slowly. Good luck!

I might have to give heart rate zones another try.

I still think that, with respect to the heart rate zones assigned to me by QT2 (the Boston-based online coaching group), the ZR (recovery zone, between 106 and 126 beats per minute) was just too low. I had to take very tiny steps to keep my heart rate from going over 126. The Z1 (aerobic zone, 131 to 141 beats per minute) was manageable for me. I did have to go slow. But I could still put one foot in front of the other without painstakingly measuring every step.

I stopped wearing my heart rate monitor a few months ago, while still using my Garmin GPS watch, to monitor my pace and distance.

I admit that I don't really want to go back and start strapping on my heart rate monitor again. But if it helps, why not?

On the other hand, I was considering trying Hal Higdon's half marathon training plans. Higdon doesn't spend a lot of time talking about heart rates either on his web page or in his book "Marathon." But he does say that most of your runs should be at a "relaxed pace," a pace where you can maintain a conversation with your running partner (if you have one).

Now, for the last several months, I was trying to adhere to the views of Coach Joe English and Coach Dean Hebert. English and Hebert support "quality runs." This means running at your goal race pace (or faster) for the "bulk" of your runs.

I have found out that this doesn't work, at least not to me. In fact, I recently commented on Coach Dean Hebert's webpage that if I took his words literally, someone training for a full marathon and running 70 miles per week would have to run 4 10Ks every week in order to do what he was suggesting.

That's too damn much racing!

So, I am moving back away from the anaerobic camp towards your camp, the aerobic camp.

I see a Sports Medicine doctor today. Once my knee is back to 100 percent, I will give LSD another try. Not the recreational drug, LSD, but long slow distance.

Before I get started writing about my latest half marathon experience, I want to ask all of you, do you have any endurance events you are training for? If so, what is the event?

I started "running" this March. I have been using Jeff Galloway's run walk run method. I train 3 days a week. My long run is on sundays. So far my longest run has been 5 miles. My other 2 training days are Tuesday and Thursday at 30 minutes. Rest day is Saturday . Monday Wednesday and Friday are for cross training. I usually just go for walks or do T-Tapp excercise video.

I am training for a 1/2 marathon in September call You go Girl. My ultimate goal is to do a 1/2 at Walt Disney World. Between now and September I have a couple of 5k planned. One is while on a cruise on Castaway Cay . I plan on running 1 minute walk 1 minute for the entire race.

Sound great. It sounds like your goal for the half marathon is to finish, right? You don't have a goal finish time like 2 hours and 30 minutes or 3 hours or 3 hours and 30 minutes?

Looking back at my first half marathon experience, I think I should have had finishing as my only goal, instead of trying to finish within 2 hours or even within 1 hour and 55 minutes.

But I had several co-workers who I knew were going to be in the same race. So, I didn't want to be the slowest runner. I ended up being the second fastest. Still, I should have taken a more relaxed attitude about my first half marathon (well, first and second half marathon as it turned out).

Good for you on having a realistic and achievable goal, but on that still will require a lot of effort and consistency.