Felt off one day but then I figured it out. All is well now

dstewart · **Joined:** Sat Apr 11, 2009 8:07 pm **Posts:** 835

Quote:

The gorging on the fat was necessary. I thought I was going to end up in the emergency room. It was like an "extreme" treatment to reverse not passing out. Today, I'm back to my normal 1800-2200 calories, but, with a little omega added in and I feel way better.

Okay, the gorging with fat was what you did. And after it, 15 minutes after it, you say, you felt better. That doesn't mean that it was the gorging on fat that did it. The fallacy is named "post hoc, propter hoc"--after the fact, therefore because of the fact. (In this case, after the fat.

Sue me.)

You say you gorged. What if you had simply had SOME, but not a gorging?

15 minutes is not enough time for much of anything physiological to happen--that is, for your body to have some unmet need met by the fat consumption. You don't metabolize it that fast.

Norm · **Joined:** Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:47 pm **Posts:** 821

dstewart wrote:

15 minutes is not enough time for much of anything physiological to happen--that is, for your body to have some unmet need met by the fat consumption. You don't metabolize it that fast.

But it is plenty of time for something psychological to happen.

-Norm

AlwaysAgnes · **Joined:** Sat Sep 03, 2011 11:45 am **Posts:** 1395

wellnessmatrix wrote:

(I also placed this on the starMcdougaller's section as well)

I have been strictly and happily doing the Mcdougall plan for about 9 weeks and doing good overall with it and dropping weight at around 1.5 lbs a week. I do around 25 minutes of moderate running 5 days a week and do body weight exercises for muscle building. Things are changing and I'm even growing a nice amount of muscle on the plan. However, there have been a few times I have felt horrible. I figured maybe too few calories, so I have been pretty good about keeping them up to around 1800-2200 calories a day.
2 days ago, I had this feeling going on in my brain like I was super thirsty, but, it turns out that's NOT what I was. I kept drinking insane amounts of water and the feeling did not subside. It's hard to explain, but it was only in my brain I felt something was missing, my throat was not craving water, at all. After feeling so horrible I could not function and not knowing what was happening, I went to a buffet and I decided I would break the diet to just load up on TONS of calories including fat as a kind of possible "remedy". I probably ate, during that meal, around 2300 calories-plus and it was almost ALL fat. I had pizza, lasagna and even chicken and just gorged on it. Within 15 minutes, the crappy feeling was MUCH better. Within 75 minutes, it was totally gone. The next day I felt OUTSTANDING and today I do as well. I kept eating extra fat and it seemed that was supplying my brain with something I may have been missing. I just don't know. I love, love the Mcdougall plan but is it possible I need to up my fat intake a bit here? There is no denying it made a HUGE improvement. Also, I don't see how just eating more carbs would have helped since that day, I was eating TONS of starchy carbs..mostly huge bowls of oatmeal, dates and yams and it seemed to not help at all and in minutes I felt better after the fat intake.

Any feedback would be so appreciated.
thanks

Maybe your brain didn't need fat. Maybe it was just looking for a dopamine rush. You could have gotten some healthier dietary fat from walnuts or avocado, but you went to the buffet and ate pizza, lasagna and chicken. Par-tay! I think that's called the pleasure trap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxf4kj8R ... re=related

I'm not going to tell you what to eat. That's your choice. I will say that if you choose to eat 16% fat starch-based diet and if those fats are coming from whole foods (walnuts, flaxseeds, avocado) you would still be eating a better and far healthier diet than most Americans. I'm not going to sit here and tell you that 16% fat diet high in omega-3 is unhealthy because that just does not compute for me. Maybe it's better for you and easier to maintain than your 9% fat diet. I don't know. There are food guidelines, but I don't think there is a one-size-fits-all prescriptive mandate for macronutrient percentages. If there is, McDougall people don't follow it, because if they did there wouldn't be a range in percentages or averages given for macronutrient breakdown, which is what you'll find if you search. Anyway, if you follow Dr. McDougall's guidelines your carbohydrate percent will probably fall between 70 and 85. The higher the carb percent, the lower the fat and protein percents and vice versa. 16% fat is higher than 9% fat, but it's still a low-fat diet.

MmmCarbs · **Joined:** Wed May 25, 2011 12:56 am **Posts:** 493

That sense of well-being you got after gorging on a pizza and lasagna buffet for the first time in 9 weeks wasn't telling you that the food has some magic nutrient you've been missing. Tasty, high-fat food triggers a reward response in the brain. That's why people tend to overeat it and develop food addictions.

Some food for thought:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 011053.htm
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2 ... is-of.html
http://www.amazon.com/The-End-Overeatin ... 1605297852

wellnessmatrix · **Joined:** Fri May 04, 2012 11:26 am **Posts:** 42

dstewart wrote:

Quote:

The gorging on the fat was necessary. I thought I was going to end up in the emergency room. It was like an "extreme" treatment to reverse not passing out. Today, I'm back to my normal 1800-2200 calories, but, with a little omega added in and I feel way better.

Okay, the gorging with fat was what you did. And after it, 15 minutes after it, you say, you felt better. That doesn't mean that it was the gorging on fat that did it. The fallacy is named "post hoc, propter hoc"--after the fact, therefore because of the fact. (In this case, after the fat.

Sue me.)

You say you gorged. What if you had simply had SOME, but not a gorging?

15 minutes is not enough time for much of anything physiological to happen--that is, for your body to have some unmet need met by the fat consumption. You don't metabolize it that fast.

it was an emergency. I thought i was going to have to go the the emergency room or something. . I did not eat this food because my willpower snapped. I truly have the attitude that I would almost rather be carried off in a body bag than give up on my diet. I don't screw around with diet discipline and I was NOT mentally struggling with the plan.

f1jim · **Posted:** Sat May 05, 2012 11:31 am

It does appear this way of eating is dangerous to your well being and it's best if you follow the program you feel best suits your needs. Thanks for keeping us aware of this dangerous situation.
f1jim

wellnessmatrix · **Joined:** Fri May 04, 2012 11:26 am **Posts:** 42

f1jim wrote:

It does appear this way of eating is dangerous to your well being and it's best if you follow the program you feel best suits your needs. Thanks for keeping us aware of this dangerous situation.
f1jim

Well, MCdougall is an amazing diet. I LOVE It and have told lot of people about it and got them on it too. I just needed to make that tiny adjustment. I am still doing the McD plan by 94%.
It's so simple, cheap and effective. I still believe in the plan very much.

Debbie · **Joined:** Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:09 pm **Posts:** 1472

wellnessmatrix wrote:

I had pizza, lasagna and even chicken and just gorged on it in order to end this awful feeling. Within 15 minutes, the crappy feeling was MUCH better. Any feedback would be so appreciated.
thanks

How do you know it was a "need" of fat? I mean, the things you ate were not just high in fat but all kinds of other things too. The first thing that came to mind when I first read your post was sodium. Obviously, pizza and other restaurant food is super high in sodium. Symptoms of hyponatremia ( low sodium levels, Im not saying you have this, just using it as an example) are similar to what you described. I dont know what your BP runs, but for me, I have constant low BP and it drops significantly and fast.

I have had it as low as 40/30 and been told I should be dead let alone not functioning as I was (I had been working on the med/surg floor in a hospital and we were "testing" each other with BP and O2. The charge nurse was floored and took it repeatedly and on both arms, it was her comment I should be dead). When its been that low, as recently as about 7 months ago, is when I have eaten very low sodium for an extended period of time. I get shaky, very thirsty, a headache and an indescribable "panicky" feeling. Panicky isnt really the right word, just the closest one. I usually start craving salty things, but NOT chips or junk food. Generally things like broccoli with nutritional yeast and salt or even just about anything with salt on top (with more added as I eat it) or obscure things like soy sauce. The feeling leaves in about a half hour. But it is quite scary to say the least.

Just to add FWIW, I was told years ago to NOT limit salt intake for too long for this would happen. My highest BP reading EVER was while I was in labor with my first and it was 120/75. My average BP runs about 80/50 nowadays.

HealthFreak · **Posted:** Sat May 05, 2012 3:08 pm

This is just my opinion based on my own experience. I think many people including myself become hyper aware of every little twinge, itch, tiredness and any other normal bodily sensation, when we switch to this diet. I think we do it sub consciously because the diet is considered radical since 99% of the population eats a SAD diet.

We start analyzing and reacting to normal bodily feelings that we would have ignored when we were eating SAD. In my opinion if 50% of people already ate a McDougall diet and we switched from SAD to McDougall we would not have this hyper aware mental thing going on.

txveggie · **Joined:** Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:26 am **Posts:** 378

Sounds a little like toxic hunger to me. Just a thought.

catlcp · **Joined:** Fri Jul 08, 2011 2:42 pm **Posts:** 9

I have physically felt exactly the same way as you did at times. I used to "fix" it like you did. Now I eat more starches...whatever I can get. That seems to work for me. And I don't worry about getting this nutrient or that, this vitamin or that. I just eat as Dr. McDougall tells us to do and I figure everything will work out in the end.

MDraine · **Joined:** Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:05 pm **Posts:** 238

I do firmly believe that some people do better with a little meat added into their diets--whether it's due to omega-3s, low iron, low vitamin D, or a myriad of other issues, improvements do happen when meat is added back at times. If following McDougall 94% works for you, I say go for it. However, I might also recommed getting a blood test or two in your future, since it might help you understand what is causing the problems following the diet.

There are some people who might also prefer to take supplements and follow McDougall 100%, but I'm glad to hear that your diet is now working for you. It might be interesting to figure out the cause of any issues, as it may help others who were or are struggling.

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