Discussion Board

I'm not picking on you, but this makes no logical sense. 93 can't possibly be "young" unless the majority of the population is making it to 150. And I'm fairly sure that Hawai'i hasn't managed that.

93 is old. There is nothing wrong with that--we will all die sometime and we should all be thrilled to BITS to make it to 93 (although I certainly hope that I'll get there in better health than this guy). I have no desire to live much past that--not only could I never afford to do so but I want to go while I'm still physically and mentally "all there."

Seriously... You're going to tell a 93 year old that what they've done to get there was all wrong and they have to adopt a new way of life? Seriously??

If they're telling you to "get off his back" then you're being way too pushy. You don't convince many people of anything by getting on their back, you're sure not going to convince someone who's 93 that they've had it wrong all those years!
Lighten up. Offer kind encouragement where you can but don't harp, it's not likely to work and will only make everyone else ignore you too.

-Norm

In truth, he and I get along great. We just had him move into the apartment next door to us. I just hate his nanaannaa attitude when I weigh 135 and take meds just toget TC down to 167! after over a year of vegan.

It sounds like a wonderful opportunity for you to work on yourself. I have been professionally caregiving for years. It sounds like his intention is to age in place. And how wonderful that can be a real possibility living next door. Dr. Esselstyn shares at age 50 we begin to have TIAs, mini strokes. These strokes go unnoticed and only if you have a MRI can you pick them up. Behavior wise from a TIA, your father in-law might become more left brain or right brain. It is important to notice because it helps to disengage to put his behavior in its proper perspective to respond vs. react to him. They say the reason we age is because we see others age, the skill is to see him restructuring himself like a caterpillar into a butterfly. We are self-correcting ourself a million times a day.

Does your state support POLST (Physician Orders for Life-Sustaining Treatment? It is a excellent procedure to bring in the reality that the person has responsibility over his/her care and the support of those who are their caregivers. This is Hawaii's: http://www.kokuamau.org/professionals/polst

Weight is a issue. While he is still weight bearing, teach him how to use a transfer board (getting in and out of bed, car etc.) by himself or with minimum help. Make sure there is a light weight wheelchair to put in the trunk of the car just in case it is ever needed. Never pick him up off the floor by yourself.. call 911. And as I said earlier sometimes the caregiver makes their transition first. Our culture thrives on the pecking order:) So if he becomes real left brain... just keep it simple put your priorities in place everything is for his safety. Don't be afraid to make distance to move closer. You don't have to be a doormat.

No matter what we weight we all have that 300 lb. monkey on our back because we all have been so blessed with the molecules of life where fat is metabolic currency for the rainy day and that day never comes. Again it is always about self-correcting, the ultimate illusion is that we are separate and that heaven on earth is a impossibility.

Aloha, patty

Patty, I hope I never meet you. I wouldn't want to spoil my idea of who I think you are. I picture you sitting serenely on a cloud somewhere in the islands, thinking deep and peaceful thoughts. Allowing the worries and cares of life to float far below you without causing even a bump to the floating cloud.

Didi

I see where geaugans is coming from-- if the father-in-law is going to live to 100 or even less than that -- and who says he isn't? -- then why not increase the chances of those last few years being ones that he could actually enjoy rather than suffer ill health through them?

Isn't that why we are all McDougalling? To be active and enjoy life to old age and then die quickly from something like pneumonia? Why would a 93-year-old choose poor health and suffering for two or five or seven years if they didn't have to? Don't 93-year-olds have feelings, too? I know a 92-year old who just last year DROVE HER CAR from Seattle, Washington, to Yuma, Arizona, as she had done every year for decades! (She makes sure she eats fruit every single day so she's aware of good eating practices).

Maybe by being after the father-in-law to improve his eating, he might eventually listen and do it, thereby accomplishing better health with which to enjoy life to the very end, whenever that may be. If geaugans didn't, he/she would be showing indifference to a loved one. (Not to mention having to take care of him in poor health as opposed to enjoying his company in good health).

Parsely is correct. I would much rather have him with more life in his years than our more freguent visits to the ER. He makes an absolutely awful patient. Just to clarify, I'm a 66 year old guy

The bigger question is just how do you go about convincing people to change? Everyone has a different idea on how present our way of eating to people, and some have more success than others.

I have found that a confrontational in-your-face approach just doesn't work with most people. It works for Dr. Esselstyn, who works with people who have very limited options and are already "up against a wall". It doesn't work for most others, though. Can it work for someone who is 93 and, according to the original poster, has a "nanaannaa attitude" about it? Obviously not since the original poster was told to "get off his back" about it. That's why my advice was: I wouldn't abandon him, but I'd back off and try a much softer approach.
People don't like a softer approach because they don't see it as being effective. Truth is... it's not very effective. But it's far more effective than being pushy about it. So why are people pushy about it if they know it's not effective? I think because in their frustration they feel that at least they're trying. Sad consolation, if you ask me, for being even less effective.
How successful am I with my "kinder, gentler" approach? I can't know for sure. I've helped people change that I didn't even know about. Just the other day a lady approached me and started talking about it. She and her husband are now McDougalling and she's ordered his new book. I had never spoken directly to her about it! She overheard me talking to other people a couple times.

The McDougal way of life is natural, satisfying, and rewarding. People will naturally be drawn to it if we present it in a way that isn't confrontational, demanding, or demeaning. For some of us that means having to put our argumentative personality aside and letting the rewards speak for themselves.

-Norm

I guess the point is: You can't really change anyone else, but how best can you encourage them to see things a little differently?

And that completely depends on the person and their situation.

My father would not listen to anything until he developed heart disease - and even then he'd only listen second hand.

I'd send him links to Dr Esselstyn, McDougal and TC Campbell talks, then he'd go off on his own and research more, never saying a word to me about whether he had even gotten the links. I know my Dad, so I never asked. Then one day, out of the blue, BAM! he changed his diet 100%.

My mom has to come to things the same way - NO PRESSURE from me.

My husband rejected all of this until he began to see the positive effects eating this way had on me, and he has slowly made the change. Doesn't want to hear too much about why, though, and was very not OK with me encouraging him to try it when I began. Ironically, he is way more outspoken and "nagg-y" to others about eating this way, now that he has made the switch.

I give that one a 10, Norm. It's got a nice beat, and I can dance to it.

In AA you see people show up at meetings, because they are ordered by the court. Once a drunk gets a little knowledge, the drunk is never the same, fat has really kicked my okolee to the curb. In caregiving the skill is staying present with empathy, while at the same time being firm of what is safe, and secure to instill a sense of assurance it is the person's well being is is ultimately the most important thing to you. And while at the same time letting them know you can't die for them.

geaugans challenge is of course is inclusive not only being a advocate within his father-law's presence in neutral surroundings but the ER, where the fat/metabolic currency runs rampant. And accepting some decisions aren't always ours to make, some karmic debts can be present. Some fates can't be changed. We just have to internally clean house, trust and have faith because the debts are always for our and humanities highest good. We can't always see the whole picture. The Light bends to reflect our picture in the mirror. It is always a inside job, I am you and you are me as we are we.

Aloha, patty

Together.

Teachers come in all shapes and sizes. Who's the teacher, and who's the student? Maybe the real lesson isn't about diet at all.

That's what great about being a bottom feeder, the only place we have to go is up.

Aloha, patty