Discussion Board

This is from another thread, but I thought it to be so important that it deserved a place of its own:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12944100

"Risk of many other degenerative disorders may be decreased in vegans, although reduced growth factor activity may be responsible for an increased risk of hemorrhagic stroke."

I first became aware of this issue on Dr. Fuhrman's blog

http://www.diseaseproof.com/archives/bl ... haels.html

but there is no mention of reduced growth factor activity. I know about keeping blood pressure low and lowering salt intake. But what do I do about reduced growth factor activity and how big/important a factor is it?

I would really appreciate Dr. McDougall's insight on this critically important piece of our health.

i agree with ginger....this is a troublesome issue and needs discussion from the more experienced persons here...
harry

That abstract also mentions, that stroke is a big problem in rural Asia. Some experts often speak about the low rates of heart disease and certain cancers in the rural Asia. Unfortunately, stroke gets a lot less attention. It seems that stroke is major problem in China. Even in the countryside.





Stroke in China







Stroke Incidence and Mortality in Rural and Urban Shanghai From 1984 Through 1991

Are we to conclude that following the McDougall diet raises our stroke risk while lowering our risk of being afflicted with other diseases? I suppose there is a ying and yang to every choice we make.

Maybe it is still somewhat early to jump into that kind of conclusion. In my opinion such conclusions based on one or two abstracts and some correlations could be easily far from the truth. There are other factors to consider in addition to diet. For example, one is smoking.

Anyway, the abstract has few suggestions how to reduce stroke risk. If someone has a link to the full study, that would be great.

Can't find any data w/ a quick search but I think Chinese eat a very high salt content in their diet.

There is some research out there showing possible increase in growth hormone over time from consistent exercise.

I think we have it covered to tell you the truth but you probably do need to get some exercise to be healthy...

My understanding is that this WOE does increase the risk of hemorrhagic stroke, but reduces the risk of ischemic stroke, which is more common in western societies, and of course greatly reduces the risk of heart disease and (maybe some forms of) cancer. So... in the end this WOE improves your chances overall.

If there's a way to counter the risk of h. stroke, without raising the other risks, I haven't heard it.

I seem to recall that this is one reason Fuhrman recommends a low sodium diet.

One of the reasons Fuhrman recommends consuming small amount of nuts/seeds/avocado is that there seems to be evidence that fat, even animal fat, offers protection against hemorrhagic strokes. But particularly there some protection offered by the monosaturated fats in those food. This is, of course, only for the lean folks. Those with extra body fat already have enough to protect.

That plus keeping sodium intake low and "eating yer veggies" to keep blood pressure low should be enough.

The article cited says IGF1 promotes vascular health. Here is something from the book, "Stop Inflammation Now," by Richard Flemming, M.D. Growth factors cause inflammation and swelling of the coronary arteries, eventually leading to plaques and unstable clots.

Of the growth factors in the body the most potentially dangerous is IGF1. ---it also causes constriction of blood vessels, which narrows arteries. There are two causes of elevated IGF-1: chronically high insulin levels and consuming cows milk and cows milk products. Growth factors may also be promoted by high protein diets. Researchers are still exploring this.

Eating too many calories cause insulin levels to spike and a fraction of that insulin is converted to IGF-1

The best way to bring your growth factors down is to eat a diet that: Keeps calorie consumption down, keeps insulin levels low, fills you up and creates satiety and satisfaction.

Weight loss will bring down growth factor levels. Dr. Fleming recommends a low fat diet to bring down growth factors.

SO--Is IGF-1 protective or not? I hope someone can explain.

didi

Here is Dr. McDougall's 2008 Newsletter article on the topic of salt. I haven't had a chance to read it and have to run right after posting, but it may shed additional light on this subject.

http://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2008nl/aug/salt.htm

Do you know what the method by which this happens is? Prior to reading this (thanks for sharing, Ginger!) I also thought this was just an issue of high blood pressure/too much salt, but reading that we actually end up with weakened cerebral arteries from the lack of growth factor is rather disconcerting? Do the added fats actually help to strengthen these arteries w/o the risks of IGF?

Does anyone know how much sodium would be considered a "safe" amount?

Damn it ! either way we have to die?

As my grandfather always said when the subject of life and death came up:


We're all going to die!! I believe that a low-fat whole-foods plant-based diet will maximize my potential for health and happiness for whatever time I have remaining. I'm not going to sweat it.

-Norm

Jeff Novick said no more than 1mg of sodium per calorie consumed. So under 2 grams and closer to 1400mg is best.

DASH diet recommends 1500mg (or less) if you're age 51 or older, or if you are black, or if you have high blood pressure, diabetes or chronic kidney disease.

AFAIK I do not think there is a minimum RDA requirement, but I think it around 500mg is what I have read. I think that it is hard not to get enough sodium, have to little, from this WOE.

j