Discussion Board

Dear Carolyn:

Thanks so much for your note - I am so sorry we are in this particular boat together - but we are here Mcdougalling and this is a really good place to be. I am shocked to find someone finds all this whining I do inspiring, but seriously, I am so happy you wrote because I hope we can lend a shoulder or cheerlead each other now as needed! That thrills me - as this is not something that other's understand that well. It's hard being this disabled and looking abled - you know what I mean, for sure!

Please, do tell me how long have you had fibro, how you found McDougall and is it helping you at all?

Some like Rosey have had their fibro symptoms go away, not me, but a but a definite improvement. things like avoiding gluten are a big help for me and others say that too here. Generally, I do have more energy and less pain. The more I am compliant the better that is, EXCEPT for weather! Does weather bother you too?

If I wasn't improving I'd never be able to do the bit of walking I am now, and certainly would have not thought of joining the Y!! I am really thrilled that my doctor already emailed me today and said she'd send me release letter for them. Also, that she's OK with the really, really light weight training, I found a link that references a Harvard study on weight training benefits for fibro patients and sent that to her - so I am going to try that too.

You so speak the truth about a bit of exercise and then you can't - I had to reassess yesterday from having gotten so excited. Carolyn please feel free to say ARE YOU KIDDING WOMAN - anytime I seem to be completely delusional again. Still, I am going to try!!!

Before fibro I was pretty much an exercise nut: walking, swimming, gym classess, weights and lots of winter and summer outdoor sports too. So this is fibro thing is a complete 180 for me. I am not going to throw in the towel, now that I got my foot in the door on some small stuff

I sure hope you have a good doctor too. So many here have good docs, but not one's that support their patients unless they are going the drug route full bore. I was really excited to read Mixed Grains description of his doctor, who was skeptical, but now excited with and tracking with enthusiasm all MG's amazing improvements. That's how my doctor is too, I wish everyone had that team relationship going.

Drugs and I do not mingle well and I am so glad I found this doctor after some really terrible ones, many of whom kept trying to treat me with anti-depressants. My friends just are amazed at that as I am according to them perpetually upbeat no matter what. I mean I complain that's a given - but the idea of me suffering from depression just made folks laugh, like it was the funniest joke they ever heard!

So please, please -- do keep in touch I would love to know how you are doing and what you are doing. It really thrilled me no end to get your post. I read your journal from way back in 2008 - so I hope you can catch me up from there. Take care now and we will "willpower" along together. Okey dokey?

Michelle - I had to laugh when I read your response - I definitely think that we have had some of the same experiences and frustrations. I was officially diagnosed with fibromyalgia almost 2 years ago. Yes, I do have a good doctor who sees the value in making dietary changes, and also encouraged me to do yoga. I am on Lyrica now, but only after we tried everything he could think of first - the Lyrica helps me alot, but I am hopeful that McDougalling will help me to get off of all of my meds, as I don't do well with meds either (in general). I did the program a few years ago, but then fell off plan - I have been re-reading some of the books, and just really started back today. I had a good day though - so hopefully this will be the time that I really do this right and see some results.

Yes, weather affects me alot - I hurt worse, and then it is harder to be motivated, and I want coffee and chocolate (which make me hurt worse). My husband was talking tonight about dipping strawberries in chocolate, and I told him that I just can't do it - if I have a little, I will want a lot, and then it gets out of control.

I would be absolutely thrilled for us to share this journey together - obviously I haven't seen any relief yet, but I am hopeful. I haven't tried going gluten free, but in general I don't eat a lot of bread or pasta or baked goods, so I don't think it is too big of an issue for me. But, who knows. Let's keep in touch, and encourage each other, and hopefully we will both be pain-free very soon.

Carolyn:

Boy another weather sufferer who resorts to sweets and caffeine at the apex of the pain. I am doing that exact thing today. The rain is coming tonight and the barometer has been going down all day. Other than fruits I have nothing sweet in the house. So my drug of choice tonight was a lowly banana.

I am being completely compliant now, but I was cheating in the rainy weeks prior. A confession - I had nothing sweet in the house back then, but the little boxes of french vanilla coconut coffee creamer. I was then using a tablespoon measured in my teecino herbal coffee for a total of 60 extra calories a day. But when the pain went way up, I was literally swigging it out of the carton for the sugary sweet of it! Seriously, how low can you go. Who knows why we crave sweet so much when the pain is so high.

Today I am in as much pain as I ever get, but because a little bird told me I seem to have will power - I had to muster and I got back to the pool today! Swim trainer, Nathan was really glad to see me, because it's been almost a month!! The swim was actually pretty hard, as my muscles are a tight as could be, but by the end of the hour I was loosening up.

Back in the locker room, I was turning a corner and ran into a friend. We don't actually swim in the same class, but her class is at the same time in another section of the pool. I used to swim with her daughter - who had just finished chemo for breast cancer. The two of us were good friends in the class, but when she was ready to - she got back to teaching full time and I keep in touch with how she is doing through her Mom.

So today the Mom asked me how I've been and I started to tell her - and then I just blurted out - "What have you done - you look fantastic!" And OMG she really does - I never noticed what gorgeous skin she has and she looked so much healthier and like she'd lost a bunch of weight.

SHE HAS, 20 pounds in the last month!!! I was ecstatic for her and then she said she's doing McDougall! I was SO HAPPY, I just about cried then and there.

The thing is - I'd told her about the "China Study" about a month ago - because her daughter's cancer has now metastasized. Her eyes perked up as soon as I said this, because she had it at home already unread on a shelf. I told her about the McDougall website and she promised she'd look at it. We talked about everything we could think of that would help her daughter - but I didn't get my hopes up too much.

I should of never underestimated the willpower of a Mom though. She's been on McDougall and doing great for a month - and she is doing it so she can show her daughter that it does have healing power and that it's easy as can be. So now the two of us are now partners in collusion -- to get her daughter on this WOE too.

I can't think of anything that has made me happier in a very long time - well, there was Nathan telling me that he and his Dad are now vegan - but those are healthy people already!! Imagine how happy I am knowing that Mom and potentially daughter are doing the best they can to reverse their medical problems with this program.

I am so happy someone told me I had will power - so I could get to the pool today!! Thanks Carolyn

Weight - 205
BMI - 30.2

I am getting close to that weight where I am no longer obese. Sadly, I have just been here and popped back up again. I was within a half pound of it. I went on the Mary's Mini to see if I could get back there faster.

But though the Mary's Mini is great - because of the weather - I am still not dropping the weight fast and I am retaining water again.

I did loose a pound since yesterday - which is good - but usually I will loose up to two some times even 3, the week I go back to swimming from a hiatus. This phenom is well known and is the reason why our trainers lecture us about bringing water bottles to the pool side. There are mandatory water breaks 3 times for a one-hour session. I never understand their explanation of this - I guess it's water pressure effects and our bodies try to equalize or something - anyway if we don't get the water it can be bad for our kidneys - so I drink plenty - and then OMG pee all day and night afterward.

I never swim on Monday's before I go to do my food closet work - because I have to excuse myself from the counter too much. The retained water just sheds really fast and it's kind of inconvenient

As much of a hassel as this is - it is the answer to my water gains in rain - I know this but boy is it hard to get to the pool when I feel so bad. Plus, going in bad weather means that I will do nothing else all day.

I did also get the cats to the vet for their annual - this is actually a really hard thing to do - think of trapping cats that are exponentially smarter than you. Trust me it's not easy and involves contortions to get them out from under or behind things. Without the swimming and stretching earlier in the day I wouldn't have pulled it off even.

After that I came home and napped for 5 hours straight, ate dinner at 9 PM and went straight to bed again. This mimics exactly my life before the CPAP!!!

I still don't have the new CPAP attachments and can't use it until I get them. I spoke to the distributor yesterday - they needed to know what type of machine before they could send stuff - apparently - that was not submitted by the tech I spoke to. Crimme, she has one simple form to fill out to order these things and she couldn't get it done right!!!!!

Anyway, I am glad to be down some and headed to just being overweight - but I am hitting that impatient part - it sure would b nice if 2 more pounds feel off over night

Good grief, bitch moan -----sigh...

I know the feeling. Good for you for bucking up and going!




I have cats, too. Understood!



I am glad you went!



The impatience is the worst, isn't it? I got that for the weight loss, until I made it way down, and now I get it for the pain symptoms - even though they are much better than a year ago, I still buy into our cultural expectations of instant gratification.


Michelle, you are doing great, even if you don't always feel great. Remember that. How cool are you for doing this? Changing your life and taking charge of your health? Way cool.

Also - I must thank you Michelle. Because of your experiences with barometric pressure-related pain, I started to track my own connections, to see if there were any.

There are!

I have increased discomfort when the pressure is dropping or low!

Very interesting.

Now I want one of those fancy marine barometers - you know, the ones made of brass and cherry with the metal mechanisms visible behind the glass? I guess it'll have to go on my birthday/Christmas wish list

I am just now reading your post from yesterday - what a great story! (Glad I motivated you ).

I have worse pain when it is rainy - I guess I will have to ask for one of those fancy marine barometers that Nicole wants!

Sounds like today was a rough day for you too - hopefully tomorrow will be better for both of us!

Hey, Nichole:

Patience is a virtue, gee, I already feel like I am being too virtuous as it is

I am working on that too. I keep telling myself - no matter what that wretched scale says, good things are going on inside that can't be seen!

Ah, so we ALL want the cool weather stations. I have one, not as nice as what you are mentioning, but good enough to hang somewhere. If I ever get that storage facility cleaned out and here.

Now that barometric pressure is something that we have studied in depth, your next science assignment, should you choose to accept it, is the meticulous measurement of urinary outputs. Collections will be made in calibrated litre flasks, when the bp in Hg is below 30 and dropping. And then again, as bp rises over 30 Hg. In this manner, it will be ascertained as to whether, weather is causing our flippin' pain-riddled bodies to retain massive quantities of fluid and stopping us from showing weight loss like the other, more-or-less, normal humanoids would, hahahaha

So, I woke up at a normal time today feeling like I could make it to the gym and I got there about 11 AM, which is about when I loosen up enough to do life at all.

I won't meet my trainer until the note from my doc shows up. Then I make the first of the two free appointments with him. Today, I just had another trainer show me the stationary equipment. I got to play on a bike, tread mill and elliptical, as she showed me the ropes.

There are also rowing machines. I love these and used to have one, I wish I had never parted with it now! An aside about my rowing machine is I think it helped me get over Chronic Fatigue when I got it in my late 20s. Many people say CFS is the precursor to fibro - just as polio is precursor to post polio.

Anyway - I got CFS & I tried changing my diet and went all vegetarian back then - no change from the diet. I finally was released from work, doctors orders, my bosses too, he was super good about it & knowing I was just unbearably sick. Anyway, I did nothing but sleep & eat the first week and the second week I ordered the rowing machine. I had a sationary bike, but I was prone to just falling asleep and didn't want to crash to far Hence the rowing machine - low to the ground.

I started with one-minute, every time I woke up and I remember it was next to impossible the first two days. But pretty soon I was up to 10 or 15 minutes and I'd try to get 2 to 3 of those in a day. Ultimately, when I got back to work, I'd do 30 mins in the morning and 30 after work. After months of that - it was 1 hour in the morning and an hour at night. Talk about boring - but I was used to swimming 50 laps and that isn't too thrilling either.

This whole process probably took 4 or five months to work up to, but at the end of 6 months of 2 hours a day - I was back out in the field summers doing field work in 100 degree weather and not fatigued at all. I loved my rowing machine for getting me back to work and all the outdoor stuff I ws about. And I will always be for using exercise and diet for what ails me.

Still now, the problem has been conquering the pain, not just fatigue, with the fibro and that is a different animal - and oh gosh, I am not 20 something anymore

So, I will find a rowing machine to use as well, but today's trainer wasn't up on those. I don't think she is about anything low to the ground at all. I was told that her last job for many years was Cirque de Soliel and she is also extremely gorgeous - I found this all intimidating

I told her that I had fibro and when she showed me the machines she kept explaining that she figured my level to be much higher than it could possibly be. I was internally a little miffed about this - but then found that I was actually working at exactly the levels she had guessed.

So on the tread mill I am doing 3.5 mph on incline even though outdoors I am substantially slower than that. Maybe not, I stop for birds and other critters, hehehe. I can't remember what I did on the stationary bike, but it was what she set me at originally, hmm.

Anyway, I did 25 minutes with 5 cool down on each. I am used to an hour of water aerobics - but I was stunned that I did that much at that level and I was actually holding back to a bit. Mostly because of my own admonition here that I always think I can do more and end up paying for it.

Weirdly, unlike the pool yesterday, I felt my muscles relaxing especially, in the knee that bothers me, the opposite calf and my impossibly tight left groin muscle. I have been working my hips at the pool to get the groin thing loosened to no avail. Yet, about midway through the stationary bike, which I used first today it all became incredibly relaxed. Even with a massive storm hitting right now - and the bp at 29.7 I am still feeling pretty loose.

In a way I am kind of irked - because for fibro folk this hot water swimming is supposed to be the best thing going. I have put a ton of money into it and maybe I just needed to be at the Y this whole time. HOWEVER, I remind myself that this WOE has changed everything for me. I could not walk at least only as far to a close neighbor's home until recently.

And I have to remember that yesterday I got back from swimming and crashed for the whole night. That too could have helped with how I feel today. Still I feel like I could have done a couple more machines today without ill effect - and that is just too weird for me to comprehend. The proof will be tomorrow morning: waking up and the pain/fatigue levels then. Mostly, if I feel well enough to swim again tomorrow.

All in all, I am completely jazzed tonight about getting back to the gym

I have to say, I admire your ability to have so much to say every day. You are really thinking about things, and I would think that putting it all in your journal is probably very cathartic. That said, I get a hand cramp just thinking about typing all of that!

Good for you for getting into the gym every day, and for trying a variety of things to figure out what you are going to be able to handle (and hopefully enjoy). I however, have not gotten off of my butt to do ANY exercise yet this week! Hubby says that we are going to walk tonight, and that he will take it easy on me. I am only 5'1", and he is 6'3", so he walks faster than I do, and has a tendency to leave me behind!

Anyway, I hope that you will have a good report for today, and that you are feeling good after 2 days of workouts!

Carolyn:

OMG, I have got to stop writing my life story in here. I think it's because I am so excited to be doing things I haven't been able to do in years...and I have to be excited about those -- because I certainly don't have any weight loss to be reporting on these days!!!!

Good grief, Carolyn, that is more than a foot of difference (like you don't know, haha) between you and your hubby - you should get to ride a bike to keep up. Hope you do get the walk in and I hope exercise helps you with the pain too!

I am at the same weight today and today is the end of my 10 day Mary's Mini (MM). I think I have lost only 1.5 pounds on it, if that, which is actually less than I have been loosing prior to the MM. But, I am not going to say it isn't good for taking of pounds: as I am really good at retaining water during stormy weather periods and that's what going on here and has been for most of the days of the MM.

I made it to both swimming and the gym today and put in an hour at each. As is typical the water retention problem doesn't resolve except on the first day back to swimming after a hiatus. So, I can loose a lot after two days off over the weekend, but nothing if I go three days a week. So for fun because it's still novel, I decided to sweat some off at the gym.

There I did the stationary bike and the tread mill again. The stationary bike helps warm me up and it really works my hips and loosens up an area that many fibro people have big problems with - the left groin. It's a mystery why, but it's reported in a really large proportion of us.

I've been thinking my left knee problem is that kind of wear and tear that leads to surgery - but as the hip area loosens the knee problem lessens, which is great.

I want to learn more machines, but right now I am pretty impressed that these two have helped loosen me up. So, I am going to keep with them til I get bored and then move on to the next set.

Other than that I am worried that all 10 days of the MM will not reap a good weigh in tomorrow - but it's been a great week anyway and I won't let it bug me too much

BP 112/72 PR 71

January 01, 2012 - 212.0
January 06, 2012 - 210.5
January 13, 2012 - 209.5
January 20, 2012 - 208.0
January 27, 2012 - 210.0
February 03, 2012 - 207.0
February 10, 2012 - 207.0
February 18, 2012 - 208.0
February 24, 2012 - 207.5
March 02, 2012 - 206.0
March 09, 2012 - 205.5
March 16, 2012 - 206.0
March 22, 2012 - 204.0
March 29, 2012 - 208.0
April 05, 2012 - 203.5
April 13, 2012 - 210.5
April 14, 2012 - 208.5
April 19, 2012 - 206.5
April 26, 2012 - 205.0

Lost 1.5 pounds this week - (April 15 to April 25 on Mary's Mini (total lost on MM 3.5)

I can't say I see a difference on Mary's Mini from the regular MWL - I typically when weather or non compliance aren't factors loose 1 to 2 pounds a week.

Because I am so close to the 200 mark and wanting to get under that so badly - I have been fretting and overanalyzing just everything that might be a possible stall to my weight loss. I am kind of surprised not to have lost more this week: 1) I have kicked up the exercise from 0 last week to an hour or two a day this week - and well I lost less this week then last and 2) the water retention issue should be done because the sun is back now. I think the time for analyzing weight loss is over. I throw in the towel - there is no rhyme or reason - I am just a very ssssslllllloooooowwww loser

I am really happy with the blood pressure level though, that's down from BP 120/78 80 pre gym exercising

Later that same day today was the day of the Monday Food Closet Volunteers potluck. I did good, I took a recipe from Dad Esselstyne's book and my own rice. I had a bit of green salad and some fruit salad.

I DID not have the lasagna, the fabulous looking cheesy casserol or any of the desserts. I should be reasonably pleased that I am getting past the temptations of this kind of eating. BUT I am way prouder of myself then that - I passed up Molly's Carrot cake.

Molly is my 16 - year old food closet partner. She is the SWEETEST girl you could ever meet and is wonderful with our clients. She is that perfect teenage thin and has the long blonde hair and blue eyes of the "California Girl" cliche. She has a real job too on top of going to HS - at a landmark restaurant here that is known for it's home style comfort food and desserts. Until recently, Molly was a pie maker there.

When we weren't real busy with customers, she would tell me the new pies she was making and the recipes she was perfecting at home too! Her favorite is her carrot cake. Seriously, I could get past all the other stuff she was talking about - but I realize I coveted this particualr cake she described - way too much.

So much so that she vowed she'd make me one. To avoid this I countered with "Oh no - I can't I am vegan!" But I got my vegan substitutions book off the shelf recently and gave it to her.

I secretly want her to grow up and start a vegan bakery here - with food I could eat on the regular program. So, this was part of my completely self-serving long - range planning!

Anyway, Molly brought the carrot cake - but not the vegan variety - she will try that, but she wanted to go for a sure thing today! Turns out her recipe has nuts, coconut, eggs, sour cream, flour, carrots, vanilla, sugar, butter and a few other things I am forgetting. It's pretty clear that it's going to be a huge challenge for her to veganize this cake - but not such a challenge for me to pass it up until then.

I did good today - I am proud of myself

Look at you passing up all of those temptations!! Way to go!

DH and I both LOVE carrot cake - I am definitely going to have to fine a vegan recipe so that we can have it for special occassions at least.

Stick with the exercise and WOE, and the weight HAS to come off. It is harder for people with fibro to lose weight, so we have to try harder. I know that calorie-counting is not part of this WOE, but I log all of my food into MyFitnessPal.com so that I can print off the food logs and send to the dietitian, so I am kind of aware of my calorie intake every day because of that. I notice that as long as I stay completely on plan, I can eat until I am satisfied and I am not going over 1400 calories per day. In fact, most days I have been closer to 1200 calories. And I am not hungry. Also, I try to get in at least 64 ounces of water every day (althought I don't always make it), and that seems to be helping too.

At any rate, keep going, and you will be under that 200 mark soon!

Thanks Carolyn - I swear it is harder for fibro people to lose, I think it's not getting the right sleep too! I use the cronometer for my food diary, especially when I am trying out non-McDougall recipes and as yet I have never had a day where I was much over 1200. This really speaks for the nutrient density filling us up instead of empty calories! Good point on the water, I have forgotten to drink my two glasses before meals and 2 other times a day. The cronometer has a place for water too, so I'll track that again. Thanks for mentioning that & the encouragement as always. Is the dietician through your medical plan?

In explicably I bumped up a pound this AM. I am back on rice after the end of my Mary's mini and that might be part. I don't know if it has to do much to do with the weight addition this time because I have been without it for a while, but I want to growl about it here. Without it I will gain weight , I can't wear the current one through the night, the tech I spoke to thinks I need it re-calibrated and we ordered a new attachment a humidifier and a new type of less invasive mask. Half of this stuff came last week, but I got a call from the distributor saying the paperwork they got didn't include the type of unit the humidifier hooks to - so they couldn't send one with the rest of the new parts. I told her - but she talked through me a couple of times and hung up. I wasn't clear that she really understood me.

Sure enough she sent the wrong part - and I honestly think they didn't have the right one to begin with. I am dead certain that the tech I spoke to initially was filling out the form to the distributor as we talked and she asked me what the main unit was a couple of times. Now I have call them again and pay to send the darn thing back and it just irks me.

I mean I don't have life threatening APNEA - but for crying out loud could people please try to do the job they are paid to do!!!

OK - that said -- I screwed up too and forgot the new gym was closed yesterday. I decided to go around dinner time to beat the Saturday crowds. Sure enough the place was closed. It is the second week there is no electricity while the electrical company replaces a transformer in the area. Why that takes a second weekend to do - I have no idea - but I forgot and didn't have a back up plan for late night exercise! Well, walking would be the choice most folks would fall back on, but we don't walk at dusk here because of the mountain lions, I guess they have the franchise on dusk time exercise sewn up entirely for themselves!!

Hopefully, today the gym is open, I will clean up the old CPAP unit and see how much of the night I can wear it and I will eat and cronometer my food again to see where I might have gone astray. AND I will drink tons of water

Hope you manage to get your Z's I wouldn't worry about 1 little pound gain if you are eating healthy foods and getting in exercise. It'll go down.

Watch out for them mountain lions.

Wt 206
BMI 30.4
BP 115/74 P 60
Exercise = 1 hour
25 mins stationary bike
5 mins rowing machine
30 mins treadmill 3 MPH random hills @ level 4

Still can't figure out why I bumped up a pound and don't seem to not be moving down again. But really, as Caroveggie notes, better to be concerned about the montain lions then the pound!

Today I will officially join the gym and pick up the correct humidifier for my new CPAP and return the incompatible one they sent me. Hopefully both the workout and getting back on the CPAP will help. I actually will have to go into my HMO to get the new mask instructions. What the tech told me to do on the phone doesn't mesh with the instructions that came with the thing. So far the CPAP has been a 64 step process and my HMO and it's distributor have prety much failed at each phase.

Yesterday I did beaucoup reading on salt. Someone posted an article link implying vegans have a greater risk of hemmorhagic stroke. This is linked to lack of IGF 1 an animal product. The article states the proof is that rural Chinese who eat predominantly quasi vegan have high incidents of this kind of stroke. BUT they also have a huge intake of salt- which the article doesn't mention, way higher then SAD eaters even. The article does not mention of course that increase IGF 1 which is linked to higher incidents of cancer.

To me it's seems more likely that its the high salt not the low IGF that is the culprit for these hemorraghic strokes in the Chinese. But staying under the salt limits JeffN and McD list, which are 1400 Mg to 1600 mg daily seems to be the answer. Using the chronometer I am doing just fine and am not going to worry about this, to me, flawed article.

Still it was worth doing the search, as I found a really good report on salt intake in the US with recommendations from many notable and reliable sources. since I am concerned about my salt intake and hope to keep lowering my BP - I now realize how much salt is in my store bought salsa and will be careful buying that in future. Otherwise, I am doing just fine and don't add any salt to my foods, with the exception of a tidge of low sodium gluten free soy sauce - on occasion.

The Report - "Salt the Forgotten Killer and the FDA's Failure to Protect the Public"

http://cspinet.org/salt/saltreport.pdf