What would you do?

ruupyet · **Joined:** Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:10 am **Posts:** 671

f1jim wrote:

Norm is 100% correct. This way of eating is entirely doable and there are many here that are a testament to it's effectiveness. If you can do it in such far flung places as Homer, AK or China you can do it anywhere. The key ingredient is the motivation to do it. For many, chronic disease is all the motivation they need. Fear doesn't hurt, either.
f1jim

Unfortunately, I've encountered people that start this WOE or something similar due to fear or a chronic disease but so many slip back to their old habits. The chronic disease is still there and I would imagine they are still fearful so I have a hard time understanding why they would go back to SAD. Addiction?

Spiral · **Posted:** Sat Apr 21, 2012 3:21 pm

ruupyet wrote:

Unfortunately, I've encountered people that start this WOE or something similar due to fear or a chronic disease but so many slip back to their old habits. The chronic disease is still there and I would imagine they are still fearful so I have a hard time understanding why they would go back to SAD. Addiction?

We tend not to like linking the word addiction to eating. But it's probably correct.

Maybe a better word is "pleasure seeking." There are lots of things that people might do in pursuit of pleasure that aren't good for us on a long term basis. Spending too much money and racking up credit card debt. Taking a vacation that you can't afford is, perhaps, a destructive form of pleasure seeking. A student who neglects his studies and goes to a party instead is pleasure seeking.

The bottom line is that a lot of the things we have to do in life (like get to work on time and do good work once we are at the workplace) aren't always fun or easy or convenient. But we do them anyway.

Addiction or pleasure seeking. Two sides of the same coin, I think.

lmggallagher · **Posted:** Sat Apr 21, 2012 3:57 pm

I know now that this isn't a purely hypothetical question and that there is a thread going now that the person in question has opened and it's great an open caring discussion is going on there. Still, I wanted to add something here - because I have given this question a lot of thought now.

Actually, when the SF Bay Area folks got together last weekend this kind of discussion was going on with a lot of us. Who doesn't know someone - we would like to commit to this WOE to avoid some serious on-going health issue.

And this "hypothetical" question comes up - what if it's someone that is already here and mostly on board just slipping - and then something really bad and pretty much unexpected happens. There they go off to the hospital for all kinds of tests and procedures.

First, off lets just say that person could be me and my gall bladder surgery as well - this is no hypothetical. And secondly, I wonder how many of us here are actually in that "mostly compliant" mode. I was mostly, but - a slip here and there - and one that ended me up in the hospital.

Who knew you could go so wrong in a vegan restaurant - where fat is concerned. That's what did it to me full compliance and then just one big fatty- oily - but McD in every other way - meal. Next day I was treated by the firemen, given the nitro, hooked up for readings and rushed off to two hospitals that treated me like I was a cardiac patient. I wasn't - eventually the gall bladder was the culprit and its gone now. Still I know that cardiac drill now and I really don't want to go through any of that again - two days in a hospital with the worst nitro headache a person can imagine & major pain and discomfort.

But I am not compliant still - not fully committed all the time -there are slips. So personally I couldn't dare think of advising this hypothetical person - and not feel hypocritical. So I am being my own counsel and being really honest with myself instead.

Starting today -- after reading various posts on not being 100% where diabetes and heart conditions are already known to exist -- I changed. I really must - because even though I know things are improving, I don't have a clue where I am in the reversal process.

I know I am not at the magic cholesterol number of TC less than 150 and LDL of less than 80 - under which we are apparently heart attack proof. Since I am not there I don't really know what my risk level is. BUT I know my numbers are very similar to the person who did just have this "hypothetical problem", though I don't have diabetes on top of the not perfect numbers.

So thanks Jim for posting this - because it turned me around on compliance - the dollop of maple syrup goes, the soy coffee creamer goes and there will, I sincerely hope, never be another meal out with family that I eat SAD.

Funny thing is I was still looking at my little indulgences from the only 10 calories aspect - as of last night I am looking at it like what's going on in my arteries. I learned a lot - and it was all good :!:

patty · **Joined:** Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:46 am **Posts:** 2278

Addiction is a disease that tells you that you don't have a disease. It is cunning and baffling as with any addictive substance it doesn't matter how much you take, it is what happens when you take it. Fear is False Evidence Appearing Real. Doubt allows you to put your priorities in place. I feel the fear isn't that we are going to die, it is we won't. So in essence the real fear is living:) Knowledge is power, self-knowledge is self-empowerment. And the gift is to die today so we won't have to die tomorrow. Because knowing what happens to someone else can happen to us because for the Grace of God there go I.

In my work as a home health aide I sometimes see a POLST form, it stands for: Physician Orders for Life-Sustaining Treatment, on the refrigerator or some place visible. If we call 911, the POLST form goes with the patient. I wonder if there is some type of form to have say... if having a stroke with instructions of what measures you desire to be taken that are non-invasive. I just did a google search for alternatives to stents and this site looks pretty interesting: http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2008/jun ... ery_01.htm

Quote:

WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW: ENHANCED EXTERNAL COUNTERPULSATION (EECP)
Stable coronary artery disease and angina can cause disabling symptoms including shortness of breath, pressure or discomfort in the chest, exercise intolerance, and fatigue.

Physicians commonly treat coronary artery disease and angina using invasive procedures such as angioplasty/stents and coronary artery bypass grafting. While such treatment temporarily restores blood flow to the heart, reclosing of the arteries is common.

A safe, effective, non-invasive therapy for the symptoms of coronary artery disease and angina is now available. Enhanced external counterpulsation (EECP) alleviates cardiac symptoms by enhancing coronary collateral circulation—alternate pathways by which blood can reach the heart muscle.

The procedure is performed in a series of outpatient treatments, in which inflatable cuffs wrapped around the legs inflate and deflate in rhythm with the patient’s heartbeat.

More than 100 published studies show that EECP can effectively relieve symptoms of heart failure, increase exercise tolerance, reduce reliance on medication, and improve quality of life. Benefits of treatment can last up to five years.

This novel therapy simulates the circulatory benefits of exercise, allowing patients to overcome symptoms and resume a healthy, active lifestyle.

An All-Too-Common Scenario

Or perhaps the doctor recommends balloon angioplasty, followed by insertion of a stent—a tiny metallic mesh tube that will be threaded into one (or more) of the arteries supplying blood to your heart. Once in place it will squish the sludge blocking that artery up against the artery walls, allowing blood to flow more freely again. The stent will maintain this opening—at least temporarily. Even with additional drugs, restenosis (reclosing) of the artery, is common.1 Like any educated American, you know that our medical system is the most technologically advanced that has ever existed. We don’t just bury people with heart disease, we fix them. If your drain pipes are clogged, after all, a plumber reams them out until they flow freely again. If it works for my plumbing, you reason, surely it will work for me, too.

In this all-too-common scenario, the doctor schedules time in the cardiac catheterization lab immediately. You steel yourself for an invasive procedure that has numerous risks, and costs more than your last car, but may save your life. You’ve been presented with all the options and agree with your cardiologist that balloon angioplasty followed by stent placement is the best choice of treatment. You accept that you need this procedure immediately. And so you submit to an invasive procedure that you’re convinced will improve your long-term chances of recovery. This is the best option for treatment, bar none, and thank goodness you’re living in a country where such procedures are performed so routinely.

But is it really the best option? What if there were another treatment option that could achieve some of the potential benefits of angioplasty, and maybe more, without invasive surgery

The article goes on to explain their procedure. I will have to do a search to see where it is offered in Honolulu. And make sure my family is informed and have the information available in my home. Sharing is the heartbeat.

Aloha, patty

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