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Jim. I am replying to your what would you do post separately because you proposed a fictional situation to think about.

On the morning of Friday the 13th of April I suffered a myocardial infarction. I do not know what a mild heart attack is and maybe someone can explain it. I was in pain for almost a week and thought it was gerd because it intensified upon eating. Since I was in pain I ate only legal McD food. Thursday night I went to the ER where the doctor also thought it was gerd after an electrocardiogram and heart enzyme blood test. Then four hours later another test showed I was having a heart attack. They wanted to put in a stent and I refused. A mistake was made. I mostly ate McD. and my blood sugars were between 75 and 85 (I am t2 diabetic). I couldn't be having a heart attack. Then I passed out, went into v fib, remember nothing until I was revived after chest compression and the use of the defibrillator. I said yes to the stent and now must take the standard five pack of meds.

So. You see, for me this is not an academic question. What will I do? One artery was 100% blocked and this got the stent. Another was 100% blocked but had built collaterals. One artery was 50% blocked and a fourth was between 60 and 70% blocked. Had the MI happened at home they would have found my body. I am glad I decided to go to the hospital. I almost waited until morning.

I think I was lulled into complacency by my very excellent blood sugar numbers. I hadn't had an HbA1c in quite a while but a test at the hospital showed an HbA1c of 5.4. Total cholesterol 166, HDL39, LDL 103, Triglycerides, 88. Fuhrman says a diabetic should eat fish twice a week, which I did. I did this for the B12 to avoid taking an unregulated, non standardized supplement. On Easter I had a little ham. Sometimes at my daughter's I will have a handful of chips that are always present--five kids,lots of snacks.

So what will I do? I cannot bring myself to try a high fat low carb way of eating---yet. I am staying with my daughter and have been eating vegetables, beans, potatoes and sweetpotatoes, some whole grain sprouted corn tortillas made with nothing but corn and lime, some oatmeal, some fruit. Another blood test in two weeks.

Did the diabetes doom me to an MI? Esselstyn talks about selective reversal of blockages. Does this mean that some could reverse but some could progress? Excuse me for being a doubting thomas but does everyone who follows the plant based diet 100% avoid an MI?
What about Dr. Davis and his track your plaque program? I believe he has published in peer reviewed journals and has had success with his very low carb program but I have not read any of his articles. Although anecdotal, I do know someone via correspondence who is healthy on a high fat almost ketotic diet for the past 8 or 9 years. Is this the secret to longevity and absence of heart disease? Or is he lucky. Is a plant based diet the secret or are those successful on it lucky?

For the time being, I will eschew all animal products, fats and oils and dairy. A more stringent version of what I have been doing. Will it make a difference? What damage is being done by the drugs I am forced to take? I will be followed by blood tests now since I have fallen into the hands of cardiologists whose diet advice comes on the printed sheet they handed me upon discharge--eat lower fat and lower cholesterol. My question about diet earned a patronizing smile. Will good numbers mean no more blockage or actual reversal? Excuse me for being skeptical. What I do now is no longer a matter of polite debate but of life and death.

Didi

First, Didi, I have been missing your posts and I am glad you are still with us!


Second, I have sensed that you were not as serious about following the diet of low fat plants recommended here as you needed to be. After years of playing around with this, you have told us you are still too heavy. So since you have access to the same information that I have here in regard to the MWL program etc., I think you have simply not been serious enough about "respecting your future self"--taking care of yourself.

Is this true?

Is this the wake up call you needed? Please let it be!

I hope that you have acquired a healthy sense of fear that will help you to stay on the right track.

Please stick with the program, preferably MWL, and keep us posted your your journey.

I pray for your healing and health.

I would like to see you become a STAR and share your successes with many!!!

Pink, I might have to be hit over the head with a heavy object before I take good advice, but I can honestly say that I do not have to be hit over the head twice.

I have about 16 pounds to go before I am considered normal weight and not overweight but of course would like to get down even more. No matter what I eat I do count calories and try to keep it to around 1200 because I do want to lose. While some on this group say they can eat all they want and the weight drops off, I have not found that to be true for me. I eat four meals per day.

Someone on another group suggested I have my insulin level tested. Which brings up the question--should I do what Nordgirl does and test after meals to make sure blood sugars do not spike above 140? Have I been remiss in eating oatmeal and banana and having a spike or eating a potato and having a spike over 140? I do not know the answer to this question yet. And although I have asked a few times, dr. McD has not replied to this. (That I know. I have not been on my computer for a while.)

Thank you for your good wishes and always welcome advice.

Didi

Didi,
I, too, am glad you are still here with us! What a scare! And what a wonderful mercy that you were at the hospital and not at home. I appreciate your thoughtful post.

You are absolutely right...this is not a polite debate. We are talking about things here that ARE of life and death. We don't always grasp the seriousness of that. I am talking to myself here. I have had a week of small "allowances" that I have told myself are okay, but are they really? We have all the tools we need here at our fingertips, yet many of us still struggle. Maybe what happened to you can be a reminder to all of us of just what exactly is at stake. Thank you for sharing your story so we can all learn from it.

I think Pinkrose is exactly right. I think you and I (also t2) need to follow the MWL plan like our lives depend on it...because, indeed, they do.

I keep thinking about a youtube video I saw of Dr. Esselstyn emphasising "NO OIL," "NO OIL." That is one of those things that I sometimes tell myself a little won't hurt...I think I am dreadfully wrong. The most success I've had is when I rid my diet of the evil triad: salt, sugar and fat. You have inspired me to get back to that and stop toying around with my health!

Again, I'm glad you are okay. I look forward to reading more of your posts.

Hi Didi
I saw your posts over on the WebMD site and I confess that they were the reason for the thread entitled "What would you do." I knew you would get advice over there that said the members here on the McDougall board would just harp at you to be more adherent. Hence my dilemma and the post.
Well, you got what I expected and what the WebMD folks said you would and I am not surprised by either. I must admit my biases are rather well known. I have something of an "all-in" reputation here and I guess I would be letting the world down by not upholding it. And yet, who wouldn't have their doubts after having gone through what you have? So what to do. You have every reason to be scared and confused as you have committed a lot to this way of eating but it clearly didn't keep you from having an event.

OK. Here is the part you already knew you would hear and I won't disappoint. I do believe strongly in the Esselstyn formula of being as close to 100% as possible. It means no animal products, no oils and as much whole plant foods as humanly possible to the exclusion of highly processed stuff. I have only two things to base this on. Everything I read says this is the best possible way to achieve reversal of this condition. The other reason is my own personal experience combined with the experiences of many I have met and compared experiences with. I have never found anyone that has successfully used any other diet method to reverse heart disease but have met scores that have successfully treated themselves with this way of eating. That may not and should not be enough for you. This decision is highly personal and must be arrived at through your own decision making process.
A man convinced against his will.
Is of the same opinion still.
I know that going all in and tightening the last pieces of compliance will do the trick. Every ounce of my being has learned that this works for anyone that does it. It will work for you. If it didn't work that way I wouldn't waste my time here for a minute longer. this isn't a hobby for me since the program delivered my life back to me. It's something I will forever be paying back to the next scared and worried person that wanders into my life with heart disease. Easy for me to say now but don't worry. Have faith and follow the now well worn path back to health. I simply placed my feet in the footsteps of those patients that followed Dr. Ornish, Esselstyn, Pickney, and McDougall. I didn't have to reinvent the wheel. All I had to do is follow the program. Despite what you may hear elsewhere, it works and it works for ANYONE that will follow the program. It will work for you. As you are discovering most diabetics die of heart disease. As ugly as diabetic issues are they usually don't kill you. Heart disease will. Luckily the treatment for both conditions is the same. You will be soon be fine. You will see your health return and the sun will shine once again for you. I apologize for using that thread in a way that may have upset you but every day I have been hoping you would be back posting and letting those here that care about you what is going on in your life. Be of good cheer as your success is all of our success. I feel your moment has arrived.
f1jim

We all know many people who eat the SAD diet of junk food. But have no heart problems! Some of us can't do that do so thanks to F1Jim for saying so.
I wish you the best health. I sent you a pm.

Thanks, Jim. Why would your post have upset me in any way? I actually thought it was a wonderful coincidence that you posted just as I was about to write.

Unfortunately I am now stuck with two blood pressure meds which scares the heck out of me because Dr. M says not to let the diastolic go below 80 and mine was low to begin with. I do not think I need blood pressure meds for blood pressure but the docs insist it is for other reasons. It was high in the hospital. No one seemed to consider that having an MI might be stressful and might raise the bp? They said it is also to slow down the heart rate. But mine is always in the 40's. So now what? Do these guys look at a patient as an individual? I don't think so. So I foresee lots of arguments in the future. Over the past several years I have taken a few tylenol That was it. Now they insist on the bp meds, plavix AND aspirin which is a scary proposition and a statin. I requested pravastatin as per dr. M.

So if there is anyone out there who thinks moderation is fine. Go ahead. Be sure and have your relatives notify us in case something happens and you can't. But I can't help wondering how traditional plant based cultures get away with a little fish or meat and no B12 pills. Maybe it is a question of quantity and they are dead before this catches up to them.

P.S., My family continues to eat the sad but buys whole wheat junk cereal and omega three butter and soda pop with cane sugar instead of HFCS and of course meat three times per day and chips that shout whole grain with canola oil etc.

Didi

my opinion: take the plavix for awhile because of the stent. the aspirin probably isn't harmful. that statin is better than some of the others. maybe the blood pressure meds can be reduced. I wouldn't think doctors would want your pulse so low. by pulse I mean the heartbeat count which hopefully can be 60 or more.. your pulse as the difference between upper and lower blood pressure may not be the ideal 40 now.

do the best you can and try not to worry!

Sorry to hear what you went through. As scary as it is it is very possible that your healthier diet led to a minor heart attack instead of major one. Your LDL though is high and the fish, seafood and oil are all contributors.

As for the fish and the diabetes, I know that Dr F suggested fish twice a week for diabetics in the original ETL. That was written in 2004 so I’m not so sure he recommends that today. There are many studies that show that fish and/or fish oil increases the risk of diabetes, aggravates glucose tolerance and insulin sensitivity. If you are interested I can post some here or send them to you.

As for the primitive cultures, which cultures do you speak of and how long did they live? Long enough to suffer from heart disease? If you are referring to the long-lived Chinese centenarians or Okinawans they ate only very small amounts of animal foods -as condiments (Jeff has posted that for the Okinawans fish was like 1% of their calories; meat less than that), oil was minimal if at all and the remainder of the diet was comprised of whole plant foods. But more importantly they ate this way their entire lives whereas you (and the rest of us) have a lifetime of SAD-eating to make up for and a lot of damage to undo.

Best of luck to you.

Having had a few stints installed myself, I can tell you that you are stuck on the plavix for at least a year, the aspirin too.

According to Dr. Esselstyn the process of stopping and reversing heart disease takes place when your total cholesterol is under 150 with your LDL being under 80. You cholesterol levels, would probably have been praised by just about every doctor know to man, still weren't enough to prevent your MI. Some of us just build plaque, and for us this diet is life or death.

Pravastatin gave me really bad heart burn, I'm on Simvastatin.

Remember that traditional plant based cultures got their B12 from the non sterilized vegetables from their gardens and farms.

Families can be amazingly unsupportive. They don't mean anything by it, it's just how people are. If I didn't know better I would think my wife had taken out a huge life insurance policy out on me, based on her opposition to this way of eating. BTW having had my first heart attack at 38 insures that insurance agents run away from me screaming if I try to buy life insurance.

I wish you luck, I know how tough this time in your life is. It would seem to be tougher, because you seemed to have been eating a MUCH healthier diet prior to your MI, than I was.

didi I saw on the webmd forum that you were prescribed lisinopril, an ACE inhibitor. ACE inhibitors or beta blockers are prescribed following MI's not only to lower BP but also b/c cardiologists say they help improve heart function/prevent heart failure and therefore prolong life. However Dr Ess never prescribed these and his compliant patients did fine without them. Some had suffered multiple heart attacks and strokes prior to his study.

Your one MI however was minor. Did it result in significant heart damage? You could ask you dr for a study demonstrating substantial benefit from an ACE inhibitor if your BP is low enough as it is. You could then show him several studies which show an increase risk of death from BP that is too low. You are correct to foresee arguments between you and your dr in the future.

Some fates can't be changed ((((Didi))), we are all learning trusting crisis are portals to opportunities. It is a lifetime process. There are no shoulds and coulds. Know you are mentoring your children and everyone around you. This too will pass, lessons will be learned and shared. Mistakes are misdirected miracles. I am so grateful you are alive in your physical embodiment:) Keep trying, tweaking, life's doors are opening for you.

Aloha, patty

My husband had a big time heart attack around nine years ago and was put on all the post heart attack meds. He worked closely with his cardiologist and stuck to McDougalling like glue and was slowly but surely removed from each medication by his physician. The closer to 100 percent he got, the closer he got to becoming medicine-free.

The last med to drop off was the cholesterol lowering drug, we just couldn't get his cholesterol down below 150 until we re-watched every DVD, studied Essy's materials, and went "totally clean" 100 percent, no deviation McDougalling. After we no longer needed that drug, we got dropped by the cardiologist with a, "You don't need me anymore, just keep doing what you're doing and stick with your GP." It was a fabulous day.

Some people have the genetics to stray and play with their level of compliance. If you've had a heart attack, you're likely not one of them. I can never understand the resistance to 100 percent McDougalling... the food's great, we feel fabulous, we're not only alive but we're thriving, what's the big deal?

But that's just us...

Beth

Oh didi, I am so sorry to hear of your ordeal. Believe me, I understand. I had my MI at the age of 42.

I had to stay on Plavix for a year. It was a happy day that my cardiologist took me off.

I've been trying to get off of my Lipitor, but diet and exercise alone didn't get it low enough and I'm afraid to chance it for too long, so I am back on Lipitor at least for now. My health continues to improve and my cardiologist told me that my heart is functioning at near normal levels. I'll take it.

I, like you, am working on following this plan 100%, no deviations. I know that as well as I am doing, there are areas that I can tweak and do even better.
I think the lower we get on the BMI scale, the better off we will be (in healthy ranges of course).

Please be well and keep us posted on how you are doing. I know how scary it can be the first few months following an MI. I hope that this is your one and only incident and that you have minimal damage to your heart. Please keep following this way of eating. We know how healthy it is and for people like us, it may be our only chance at making a real difference in our health.

didi: No comment from me, but to say I am thinking the good thoughts for you. What an ordeal to go through. I am heartened to see that others who have been through this before you are telling you about their experiences and I so hope that is helpful for you.

Please be well - Michelle