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I don't want to be discourteous to Dr McDougall and the folks here by asking about another diet plan, but I don't know how else to ask you this question....

Our PCP suggested that my husband and I go on the "Eat to Live" diet because we were over weight, on lots of meds, about to be on more and our numbers were really bad. My husband has had great success, but my LDL has actually gotten worse and it is scaring me. Heart disease is on both sides of my family, and along with cancer, took most of their lives. So this is why I am here. I am thinking of changing to this plan or at least a hybrid.

Since Dec 28th I have lost 30 lbs, need to lose about 15 or so more. Have gone from the SAD to almost totally Vegan and tweaking every day.

Numbers: Total Chol from 291 to 271
LDL from 166 to 184
HDL stayed at 58
TRIG from 334 to 145

My husband is near his goal weight, is off 2 meds and no longer needs to be put on a third. His numbers aren't just good they are fantastic! We have eaten the same things. The only difference I can think of is during the last three months I have been under extreme physical and emotional stress. Which is just now beginning to ease.

I have MS, Chrones Disease, have had breast cancer and have had a complete hysterectomy.

I can't think of what else to try than maybe switching to this diet. I don't want to be on any more medicine and surely don't want to add heart attack to the list.

Your feed back would be greatly appreciated!!!

More information please.....
When did you start on the McDougall plan? How close to following the plan are you? It's rare to see LDL rise on this program, even slightly as in your case. We do see the numbers jump within a range of 10% or so just from the variability of the tests. What we really look for are trends up or down over a significant time period.
When looking to reduce cholesterol we usually use a multi pronged attack to reducing it. On the intake side I assume you are eliminating all animal products including dairy. I am also assuming you are eliminating all added oils from your foods whether it's store bought or made at home.
On the other side of the ledger intake of certain sources of beneficial fiber is great for helping the body reduce blood levels. Oats are the popular choice for helping but barley and other sources are great for removing cholesterol. Don't be dismayed by anyone elses progress or lack of it. We are all different when it comes to our reactions to dietary changes. Many make the smallest changes and see major changes in their numbers. Others seem like they have to watch every little thing to get their numbers to move. Some here report their cholesterol didn't move as much as they would have liked till their body weight approached their ideal number.
As to Eat to Live, much of the tenets of Dr. Fuhrmans program are embodied in the McDougall program. In fact, many of the people here follow a hybrid using techniques from both programs. There are many features in common between the two programs. If you read the Eat To Live book you will find much in common.
f1jim

I wouldn't be too surprised if all the nuts & seeds that Dr. Fuhrman insists everyone eat is doing it.

Try reducing or even eliminating them for a while and see how the labs go. Dr. McDougall only allows them in very limited quantities for people who are already at their healthy weight and do NOT have a history of heart disease. If you're still overweight or have a cardiac history, then no nuts at all.

Thank you both for replying. VeggieSue you may be hitting on something there! Eliminating nuts and seeds will be the next thing I do. Wonder though if I should keep the tablespoon of ground flax and chia for my morning oatmeal. I think that they are supposed to help lower LDL.

f1jim I am still on the Eat to Live diet and trying to figure out if I should switch to McDougalls plan or create some sort of hybrid plan of my own. We started out with what a dietitian told us to do which (I am learning now) was just a slightly less crappy version of the SAD. Then switched to Eat to Live. Not over night, but quickly. We are now eating mostly veggies cooked and raw, (light on the starches), no oil, variety of legumes, mushrooms, no added sweeteners fake or real, recently gave up all dried fruits, only a little fruit juice in the occasional smoothie, very rarely 3 ozs meat, no fake meat, was allowing a vegetable omlet on the weekend (stopped that 2 weeks ago), very rarely any dairy, very rarely whole grain bread. Limited grains, 2 to 3 fruits a day, don't add salt during or after cooking something. That is what I can think of off the top of my head.

Using Dr Fuhrmans recipes which many do call for nut butters as you say VeggieSue. That definitely will be re evaluated.

The last 3 months my Chrones has flared, I have gone back into full blown menopause and have been in so much pain that it hurt to walk and at times even to lay down. I found a post on here SOMEWHERE???? today that stress may make your LDL go up.????

Will add barley to some of my soups f1jim.

Wow James just listened to your story. Awesome!!

LDL is a calculated value, not a measured one. The formula used to calculate LDL is total cholesterol - HDL cholesterol - 0.2 x triglycerides.

Because your triglycerides were so high before, your LDL was calculated artificially low at 291-58-67=166. Now, because your triglycerides have gone down so dramatically the calculation is 271-58-29=184. This is a GOOD thing. You ARE going in the right direction. Keep up the good work.

Kate

Kate, To start with, I had no idea that triglycerides had anything to do with cholesterol. Thank you for the explaination and encouragement!

Was digging around trying to find that post about stress and LDL and ironically it was yours. Did you find ways to help your situation? Did it help your numbers? Hope so!

Oh, had POTATOES last night. Boy have we missed them!! The recipes look so good.

I have been listening to Star McDougaller's stories, reading stuff from here, lectures of the Doctor and Dr Esselstyn and am thinking in light of my family history and my numbers that I am a heart attack waiting to happen.

Now my neurologist just asked me if anyone had suggested I go on meds and that I should consider it. I am having difficulty dealing with the side effects of the drugs I am on now. Does anyone have any suggestions to get my numbers lower faster without drugs?

If it were you would you go on meds with my numbers and history?

Getting kind of scared.....

If you are following Eat To Live as mentioned in a previous post you are pretty close to a McDougall diet already. I would continue fine tuning your diet for your issues.
As far as medications, given your list of health issues you need to continue to work with your doctor before just quitting anything. I would be especially v=cautions if you are on blood pressure or diabetic treating meds. Let the diet correct much of the problems and evaluate and eliminate the meds as you get healthier. Many meds can be dangerous to just outright quit them. It is important to work with a health professional in these areas.
f1jim

Sorry, just got a little freaked out yesterday watching one of Dr Esselstyn's videos on high cholesterol and heart attacks. The people in his study already had heart disease and their numbers were lower than mine, so I panicked a wee bit.

Just found the post on here: Share Your Wisdom in Reducing Cholesterol and will incorporate what I found there.

Thank you f1jim for your advice, I won't just quit meds without asking. Just a bit overwhelmed right now. I currently have 5 doctors/specialists for different things and most never talk about diet and focus instead on adding meds. The neurologist wanted me to think about adding cholesterol meds and I don't want to do it that way. Just got a raised eyebrow when I tried to talk about diet, then on to other issues

One more question if I could: Is 1 tablespoon of ground flax and 1 tablespoon of chia seeds a good addition to my oatmeal to lower cholesterol?

I'd say EITHER is fine but probably not both.
f1jim

f1jim thank you for your reply, I really appreciate it!

Heart disease is more than just about cholesterol levels. It is an inflammatory disease process and cholesterol is just a part of the equation. Have a healthy lifestyle is the other part: what you eat, weight, smoking and to a lesser extend exercise are all factors. Just following this WOE and Esselstyn's admonition "No Oil" and give it time.



Flax and Chia seed are only heart healthy to the extent of the fiber they add to your diet. Any soluble fiber will help lower cholesterol. Soluble fiber such as in oat bran or psyllium husk are also very good sources.

j

Thank you as well jay kaye! I am getting a grip now I just want to do as much as possible to move my numbers lower as quickly as possible! I'll keep eating my veggies and NO OIL

Note to self: If you get wound up again read this:
http://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2007nl/may/statins.htm