Discussion Board

I appreciate everyone that has replied, thank you for comments and your time.

My sister had the lap band put in, and it was a complete disaster. She never dealt with her issues surrounding food, and believed that the band would do the work for her...but she quickly learned to "eat around the band" (her words). Unfortunately, because she was eating too much, too often, and too soon after the surgery, her band slipped down her stomach until it was at the BOTTOM of the stomach (instead of around the top) and was preventing the food from going from her stomach into her intestines! So she was able to eat normal amounts of food...but it ALL came back up. This went on for MONTHS.

She had no health insurance, and the doctors around here would not touch her because of that. She finally ended up in a hospital, dehydrated and gray. It was awfull. Those bands do not show up on an x-ray, and no one seemed to know that. It wasn't until a bariatric study was done that they figured out the problem...and of course they did not want to do even that, because it was expensive!

Fortunately, the lap band can be removed. And hers was finally taken out. But gastric bypass is PERMANENT. They can't go in and "put back" the stomach parts that they have taken out.

Wow, Sharonbikes, that was a really intense link. I agree that it should be shared with anyone considering such drastic surgery, even though she maintains that she would still have the surgery if she had to do it all over again (though maybe not if she new about Dr. McDougall).

I wanted to echo other people's comments that bariatric surgery doesn't do anything to resolve a person's issues with food. Like Glassbird's sister, my mom had a lap band. She lost a bunch of weight, but had numerous issues with acid reflux. Unfortunately she discovered that milkshakes both slid right through the band and didn't aggravate her reflux. While she still has the band, it's deflated so it isn't limiting anything, and she's gained all her weight back plus some. She denies the emotional connection to food, claiming that the reason she overeats is simply because it tastes good and is enjoyable.

This past October a good friend of mine went to Mexico for a gastric sleeve operation, where they basically turn your stomach into a banana shape, limiting its size and supposedly cutting out the part that signals hunger. I can see that she's eating less (and slowly losing weight), but not much differently than she had before (and that's one of the things the information packet emphasized, that one's eating habits have to change). It makes me sad, but I can forsee a future in which her stomach simply stretches and she stops losing weight/gains back whatever she has lost.

I do think surgeons inform patients that bariatric surgery is simply a tool for losing weight, but it falls on deaf ears. People are so accustomed to looking outward for a solution that they overlook their own role. I wish I could get both my mom and my friend on board here in McDougall-land, but I know it would be ineffective. All I can do is set an example, be open to questions, and hope.

Good luck with your friend. I too would want to spare him the experience.

I beg to differ with you, Norm. I eat very normally and very healthy. I eat normal meals and have normal bowel movements. While I do wish I had know about this WOE before I had myt gastric bypass, it helped my regain my health.

I think the hardest part of life's feedback is knowing some decisions aren't always ours to make. It is important though to try for what we want and take what we get. Diversity creates a unity of emptiness. McDougalling is a blessing, no matter what it takes to arrive where we have started:) A place where everything looks up. Who would believe volume eating stops when the solution is starch?

Aloha, patty

I've known a few people who had this surgery, and know how difficult it was for them, So when I found out a few weeks ago a coworker was planning the surgery, I gave her a copy of The McDougall Program (I buy extras of this book when I see them low priced on eBay and so I always keep a few in my trunk to give away). I told my coworker that I didn't want to offend her in any way, but knowing she was considering surgery -- I just wanted share another option with her. I also told her I would never follow up and ask her if she read the book, or if she was trying it, etc.. She took the book home and I never pestered her about the book. Last Wednesday she had the surgery. I noticed Thursday that the McDougall book was back, sitting on her desk -- perhaps she means to give it back when she returns to work. Anyway, it's just so SAD! Most folks in the office know I lost weight McDougalling. Or, at least they know I am no fun to eat lunch out with! lol Anyway, just posting to agree how sad it is when you want to help so much and cannot.

You quoted my entire post, but didn't address everything I said, so I have to ask, do you disagree with everything I said, or just the part about normal meals and normal bowel movements? If you truly do eat normal meals after gastric bypass, then you're the exception, not the rule, or you've redefined "normal" to suit your needs, but it's hardly reasonable to expect someone else going in for gastric bypass is going to be able to eat "normal" meals ever again, is it?On a psychological level we all tend to rationalize our past. I, for instance, could argue that ballooning up to 486 pounds saved my life!! How? It forced me to address the issues that caused my health to come to that point. I could further argue that had I peaked out at, say, 350, that my life would have still been manageable enough that I'd have never considered the drastic changes I needed to make, and that I'd have eventually died relatively young and in poor health, never making the needed changes. All of this assumes many things, and really would be designed to make me feel better about my past by painting it in the best possible light. No, I don't rationalize my past like that. I don't see the point. But I understand why people do it. And I understand why you'd paint your past gastric bypass in the best possible light too. It's human nature. I did not wish to make anyone feel bad about having gone down this road themselves.
I'm glad you wish you had known about this way of living before you'd had your bypass done. And you should wish that for the man who is considering going that route himself. My post wasn't about making you feel bad about your past choices, or about causing you any discomfort about your rationalization for your past choices. My post was about trying to help steer a man towards this way of eating BEFORE he mutilates his body with gastric bypass. Do you wish that for this man, like I do? If so, then accept my apology for anything I said that rubbed you the wrong way. I'm only trying to help. Yes, I said some blunt things. But there is little time to talk him out of it, and being blunt is the only tool in the bag that'd work for this. I'd never be so blunt with anyone who'd already gone down that road. It'd serve no purpose. I don't believe in being blunt for the sake of being blunt, or because "that's just how I am" (always followed by an attitude of "get used to it"). That's not who I am!! I'm typically Mr. Compassionate, so accept that I feel badly if I caused you any discomfort.

-Norm

Normal is a cool word. In our culture, a "normal" diet equals SAD-- it's highly processed, high fat, high protein, and animal-based. Normal meals in our culture look like a cheeseburger and fries and a quart of Coke, or maybe three pieces of extra-crispy fried chicken, instant potatoes with lard gravy and a side of slickery slaw, or maybe a bag of Nacho Doritos and a can of Yoo-Hoo. Normal bowel movements in our culture are either few and far between or explosive bouts of toxic sludge. Normal is a cool word.





Whether or not you've had bypass surgery, if you're now eating according to McDougall guidelines, you're not eating Western culture's normal. Odds are your bowel movements aren't "normal" anymore either.

My ex-SIL had bypass years ago. She had huge complications with infections--I guess because of the staples in the incision. She has allergies to some metals (and the sun). I don't know how she's doing now. I haven't talked to her in ages. Not sure, but I think she sued that doctor.

When I hear "gastric bypass" I usually think of Carnie Wilson.
http://childhoodobesitynews.com/2011/04 ... ie-wilson/

This is the Star McDougaller who had gastric bypass.
http://www.drmcdougall.com/stars/star10 ... ilson.html

If you want to be healthier, it's probably best not to be too normal because in SAD culture, "normal" doesn't lead to health. Now gastric bypass surgery is becoming normal. What does that tell you?

I've known several people who have experienced excellent results and are able to eat normally as well. I also know a few who have regained their weight and a few who have difficulty eating certain foods.

Things are not always so black or white... so absolute...

There are many dimensions involved in why people choose Gastric Bypass... many of them psychological. There are also several variations of the Gastric Bypass procedure, some more drastic and potentially harmful than others.

My sense of it is that Gastric Bypass can be a necessary and beneficial option for certain individuals at certain times in their lives. That being said... it is unfortunate that it has become as widespread and common place as it has... For me personally... I'm glad I did not have the proceedure and went the vegan sans added oils and fats and exercise route instead....

This is another of those tough issues to get your head around. Who can't see the anguish of someone morbidly obese and dealing with all the complications that brings to their life. Yet is their anyone that couldn't be helped by simply getting on board with this program? There is a balance here going on between the immediate need for action and the possible long term damage done by having on of these procedures. Like anything else, much of the progress made by those having one of these procedures is dependent on the skill level of the doctor providing it. Also, when you are having such drastic action done the likelihood of serious and long lasting complications is great. Depending on the procedure removal of parts of your intestinal tract is rarely without incidence. Many people joining the forum have expressed their dismay at having the procedure and some have expressed relief at having done this. Who is right? Many had not heard of Dr. McDougall or a plant based diet prior to having the procedure. You can't fault anyone for their lack of knowledge at any given time in their life. We can all look back with some regrets about not knowing.
I would hope someone contemplating this type of procedure would feel like they have exhausted their choices before settling for the surgery. The stories of great weight loss by simply changing the composition of their diet continue to amaze me. There are many other side issues too. Few people get to 400-500 lbs without enablers that actually hurt the person they feel they are helping by feeding them the endless garbage food. Lot's of emotional stuff that plays through all the interactions. If you ever watch the shows that look at morbidly obese individuals there are usually people that are bad about keeping a person in that cycle.
We have several huge weight loss stories playing out in front of our eyes right now here on the forums and many of us are hoping, praying, encouraging those fighting this battle. When they win we all win. I believe everyone that has put their views in on this thread wants the best for everyone fighting this battle. Whether you have 30lbs to lose or 300 it isn't easy. It is exciting to see people using the program here to recover their health. Though we are talking about weight make no mistake, it is about health every bit as much.
f1jim

No Norm, I didn’t disagree with your entire post, I just neglected to only quote the part I was referring to, where you said

He'll never eat a normal meal again, after bypass. He'll never have a normal bowel movement again, for that matter

That is not a true statement. You just hit a nerve with me, I guess. I know many people that have had the surgery and did quite well with it. I also know of a small number of people that had complications. Just like any other surgery.

I’m not trying to rationalize my past. I was 42, I had a heart attack and I didn’t think I had another choice. I’ve been quite open about my surgery and have posted in the past how I was sorry that I didn’t come across the McDougall program prior to my surgery, but I can’t go back and change it.

I do hope this gentleman finds the right answer. I hope veganjen is able to help him make this decision.

I am happy for you that you are making such great improvements with this WOE. It is, in my opinion, the absolute best.

Hi Agnes, lucky for my, normal now = McDougall.

That is terrible about your SILs surgery. Infections and allergic reactions are never good.

I agree, Knut...it is not black and white.

Hey veganjen
I agree to send your nieces' hubbie to the McDougall site - but also there was recently an episode of Supersize versus Superskinny program - it is a UK program that brings together an overweight/obese person and a stick figure person to confront them about their eating habits and lifestyle habits. The vegan UK lady (can't remember her name - menopause brain is occuring at this moment) also at times does segments on this show. Anyway, if you look up the show - it had a segment on gastric bypass surgery - and talked about the pro's and con's - more con's than pro's - as in people who have this surgery don't address their eating habits - The Sup ver Sup program were very anti such ventures.
Also here in Australia we have a number of government health websites - the best is in Victoria - it provides up to date information, articles and where to go to seek further information. you can view the site at
www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au
Anyway, hope this assists.
Cheers - Jan and Cuz Nicki.
visit Cuz Nicki @ cousinnicki.blogspot.com

I friend of my family had GB about 8 years ago, due to lack of care after the surgery they didn't keep her warn enough and her reynold's syndrome kicked in. In the end she lost weight, but also 4 fingers and at least two toes. Now a few years later, she is miserable, missing fingers, and the weight is all coming back. She never learned how to eat real sensible food, and all the flab she got from the rapid weight loss was not good either, now it might end up filling back in, only time will tell. The first thing I would tell a family member is that GB is MAJOR surgery. I've heard it being sold as a quick fix, easy, minimal recovery, yet there is much more to it than that. After the surgery, my friend would still try to go out to eat with everyone, and get the same meals she had before the surgery, but she would eat 2 mouthfuls, be full, then get depressed that she couldn't enjoy the food left on her plate, and then discuss how her whole life food wise had become one of restriction (because she couldn't even eat a normal plate of food) and of indulgence. Because if you can only eat a few bites of food before becoming sick, she felt that it might better be filled with a decadent dessert rather than good food. Plus there is no way eating real (healthy) food with the portions that are needed for that, that anyone could get all the nutrients they need without supplements. Mcdougall should always be tried before going the GB route. Just my 2 cents.