Discussion Board

It would be wonderful if we had a topic specifically for McDougallers with diabetes. I tried to join diabetesforums.com and was completely frozen out They seem to be all rabid low carbers and if you mention the V word or Dr. McDougall or Dr. Barnard they are absolutely threatened like crazy. I was really hoping I was going find a place with a lot of support but now I realize I shouldn't have said anything about my eating habits in my introduction thread.

Lots of us here with diabetes (including me -- type II). Why don't you just start a discussion thread right here and everyone interested can join.

I think it's a good idea to have a separate topic on diabetes. If we just start a thread, it will almost certainly get buried fairly quickly if no one posts on it for several days, yet diabetes is such a very common problem, and the conventional teaching is NO (or very limited) starches for diabetics, especially not potatoes or rice.

I've noticed that at fairly regular intervals a newcomer will really question the wisdom of a starch based diet for a diabetic. It's be nice to have a place where they can easily find other diabetics' experiences.

I hope Jeff will see this so a separate heading for diabetes can be seriously considered. Afterall, if there's not much activity (but I bet there will be), it can always be deleted later.

One topic I'd like to discuss is, how much added dietary fat can be tolerated by a diabetic without noticeable rise in blood sugar (Dr. Barnard says no added fat for the diabetic as increases insulin resistance). I notice, myself, that even just a few nuts (an oz or less per day) will result in gradual rise in blood sugars over the next few days. What are the rest of you noticing/doing?

Maer

New here, also Type II Diabetic and just switched from lo-card to all plant based diet. So I can use any extra help; a separate board would be beneficial IMO.

Well, until the day when we have our own topic, I would like to bring up the issue of breakfast. I've been keeping careful track of my type 2 no-medicated husband's BG numbers with a chart. FYI he has been on the mcDougall maximum weight loss diet for 6 months (i.e. no animal products/no oils, avocados or nuts, bread), the last 3 without cheating (ahem, Christmas ) and has now reached his optimum weight.

Turns out that oatmeal or any kind of whole grain (healthy) cereal just sends his numbers sky-high, around 200. I also test my non-diabetic self as a marker and it definitely doesn't have that effect on me, but then again I'm not diabetic duhhh...

He can get away with a green smoothie with just bananas as fruit, no strawberries for example, but that puts his numbers up to 140 and he can only have one glass which isn't really filling enough for him. But I'm proud to announce that I have discovered the perfect diabetic breakfast at least for my husband.

Behold the tofu scramble from the happy herbivore! I never dreamed this would taste so delicious, or so much like eggs! I made it with mushrooms, celery and fresh chilies, and served it with some cherry tomatoes on the side. It turns out that dijon mustard completely gets rid of the tofu flavor, it's a trick they use in a lot of tofu recipes. If you don't have any nutritional yeast yet, run to the health food store and get some! It has nutty/cheesy/salty/meaty flavour that is fantastic and important in vegan cooking. And it's the main ingredient in vegan gravy!

http://happyherbivore.com/2008/10/basic-tofu-scramble/

FYI his BG scramble numbers:
on waking up: 101
1 hour after scramble: 123
2 hours: 110

Is it just oatmeal that causes his blood sugar to go up? How about potatoes? Dr. McDougall says that starch will lower blood sugars.

Okay, this is weird but potatoes don't spike him, even the nasty russet type. It's oatmeal, and golden delicious apples. I think it just goes to show, that everyone is different and especially where a disease like diabetes in concerned, testing for the individual is of paramount importance. Also, I don't have diabetes and I've tested myself multiple times and I can tell you that oatmeal and apples don't spike me.

I should mention that in spite of his 40 lb weight loss, I still can see a couple of pounds of belly fat on husband so perhaps his readings will improve with more weight loss. He used to spike with whole wheat pasta and he doesn't now. The testing will continue.

Nordgirl, everyone on the low carb diabetes groups says that it is dangerous for your blood sugar to go over 140. Dr. Gabe Mirkin on his web site says the same thing. I eat oatmeal just about everyday for breakfast. Quite often my blood sugar rises to 200 after eating oatmeal with a mashed banana. I never worry about it. It doesn't stay there very long and by the next meal the numbers are way down.

It seems to me that if it is dangerous, then after twenty years with diabetes I would be having whatever it is that a spike of 200 would cause. But I don't.

I do not think you should get into the mindset of insisting that every time you eat you should get numbers below `140 or 120 or whatever. Check out the webmd diabetes support group. They are low carbers, strictly keep the blood sugars--even after meals--below 120 or 140, and all but two are on meds and/or insulin and some have more serious illnesses to go along with the diabetes.

Speaking for myself, the important thing is avoiding fats and oils, especially fats eaten with starches or sugars.

Exercise is a wonderful way to keep blood sugars in line. Sometimes it seems to me that the more I exercise, the lower my postprandials.

Dr. McDougall in one of his video talks mentions that blood sugars of 200 or 300 do not worry him. It wasn't clear if he meant just when he first takes people off their meds or if these numbers are okay after meals when they have been off meds for a while and well into his diet. I would really like for him to clarify this. I have never heard him say, if oatmeal (or corn or potatoes) cause your postprandials to rise to 200 then you shouldn't eat them.)

For myself, I eat 2/3 cup dry oatmeal to which I add water and cook in the microwave. Another question for Dr. McDougall might be--if the post prandials shoot up to 200 or more, should we restrict amounts, even though we have not eaten till we are comfortably full?

I would really like a separate group for diabetics. I don't think there is any other diabetes group where our kind of diet gets any support.

Didi

Wow, some really helpful discussion here. Yes, I hope diabetes can have it's own topic here.

My morning post prandial bs goes to 160+ after 1/2 c dry rolled oats and 1/3 c oat bran, then cooked in the microwave with water and served only with cinnamon. this is sometimes in spite of a brisk 45 min walk right after eating. Although it comes down before lunch, it really makes me uneasy. Without the exercise, it could be 200 or so. So I, too, would like to know from Jeff or Dr. McD if I need to worry about this. It's reassuring to know that Didi is still doing fine with it!

Do any of you eat added nuts/seeds during the day?

How do sweet potatoes affect the rest of you? I plan to check that again soon, but had started avoiding them because they are sweet, and (ha ha) everyone knows that a diabetic should avoid sweets!!!

Russet potatoes really send my sugar high.

The tofu idea sounds good but in all honesty, probably more work than I'd go to first thing in the morning. Also, I really would miss the satiety of starch. I'm glad your husband likes it, though, and is doing well with it.

Maer

Just another voice to say I'd like a diabetes group also.

How about "Diabetes & Related Conditions"? We could add a thread within it for insulin resistance and another for PCOS since they are so closely related, for example. Researching reversing my disorders led me to researching reversing diabetes, which is what led me to Dr. Barnard and eventually here. I didn't know ANYBODY who'd reversed PCOS by cutting out the fat. I wasn't even sure I'd get rid of insulin resistance since my problem was in the "too much" insulin stage, not the "too little" stage that follows. And I debated awhile between low carb (like Jack Challem. Dr. Bernstein, and so many PCOS things tout) and Bernard. But I tried cutting the fat, along with trying supplements I didn't maintain, and exercise I basically dropped during the winter. And lo and behold, at 27 my periods started regulating after a lifetime where for MAYBE ONE 3-month span I'd gotten a period each consecutive month!!!* It wasn't until I came here that I knew of this happening with anybody else.... It'd be great if very common (and less common) conditions related to diabetes could be in this forum too!

*Retesting the fasting insulin soon, and hopefully eventually a follow-up ultrasound. My pro-insulin is all that's been tested - and if that's a good indication, I am toward the bottom of the range! But even if not, I'm sure I've improved even just by symptoms!