Discussion Board

I was listening to Rush Limbaugh today and he was reading excerpts from this article:

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/24251 ... rt-Disease

Some of it is way off....saying eating saturated fat is not bad. Some of it is right on...talking about the inflammation of one's arteries.

What I'm wondering is why aren't Dr. Esselstyn's findings that I read in the book Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease FRONT PAGE NEWS?!

The diet Dr. Dwight Lundell is suggesting is pretty far from the McDougall diet. Also Dr. McDougall is on the same page with Dr. Esselstyn about maintaining total cholesterol below 150 to prevent and reverse heart disease. Dr. Esselstyn has proven his method works in scientific studies. Dr. Lundell can offer no such proof that what he is recommending works.

From the Amazon review of Dr. Dwight Lundell's book: The Cure for Heart Disease: Truth Will Save a Nation



It's a pretty bold move for this doctor to say that Dr. Esselstyn is wrong. Dr. Esselstyn has published peer reviewed studies, and sites many other scientific studies in his book. The article linked advocates consuming olive oil and butter, and also meat. He provides no scientific evidence what-so-ever. There's no studies or anything supporting his opinions.

Checking into Dr. Dwight Lundell will turn up that he's selling a couple of books. I have NO problem with that. He's also Chief Medical Officer for Asante. A Company the sells a product called HeartShot™ (contains a scientific blend of Omega-3, CLA (Conjugated Linoleic Acid) and antioxidants* designed to give you the essential nutrition you need to assist in the fight against chronic inflammation.)

When you order HeartShot™, you also get:

• Ability to set up an Autoship and have products delivered to your doorstep each month (can be cancelled or changed anytime).
• Build an Asantae business and generate income simply by sharing our products with other people.
• 1 year online Asantae Office business management and marketing system
• 1 year personalized Web site (to sell products and enroll new people)

Further research into Dr. Dwight Lundell will turn up;

A retired Gilbert surgeon who had been disciplined and warned for poor patient care and incomplete records in the past decade has been stripped of his license after the Arizona Medical Board determined missteps led to the deaths of at least six patients.

The 12-member oversight board took away Dr. Dwight C. Lundell's license last week after a five-year review of his prior disciplinary history and an inquiry into allegations of poor patient care and record-keeping.

Lundell had worked as a cardiothoracic surgeon in the Valley for about 25 years, performing more than 5,000 heart surgeries. State records show he was scrutinized in the last decade because of a series of patient or family complaints.

Thank you for the sharing your thorough research on this doctor. As Limbaugh was reading the article I was getting so angry because I know millions of people listen to him and basically he was saying that it's okay to eat meat and butter!

And the doctor practiced in Gilbert, AZ, which is very close to where I live! Makes me shudder.

Dis, you're a champ.

Didi

My Husband's Cardiologist is a vegan...He has told my Husband it is the way to go ..Hubby..is trying, but he still won't give up the fish or chicken..although we are down to only 3 servings a week from 5...the other days he eats McDougall style.
Hubby is stubborn..no doubt, but his Doctor also told him that smoking causes more damage to your veins and arteries..because it produces "sludge"....
When Hubby had his Bypass last May..his veins were in poor shape because of diet and 40 years of smoking....Thankfully..He gave up smoking the day he went into the hospital...So it you eat healthy but smoke...you are still playing with fire

The information about eating a low fat, plant based, whole foods, diet may seem as solid as the Rock of Gibralter to most of us. We have read the works of Dr. Esselstyn, Bernard, Ornish, Fuhrman, Pickney, and in our minds there is little question this dietary path provides the solution to the ills of chronic disease. Attend a local McDougall gathering, one of the events hosted by the doctor, or connect with those that have discovered this path to health and those findings will be reinforced.
But many are behind the curve and are waiting for something like an official pronouncement of the discovery of the answer to heart disease. That announcement will never come. Those participating in other forums, including members here, will hear statements that this way of eating isn't solid science yet. For some there will never be conclusive science. They say this way of eating doesn't work for some. Science is the adoption of the best possible answer for questions about anything and even when the evidence is near irrefutable there will always be some random piece of information that seems to fly in the face of established science. That's the way the process works. It's healthy to always be skeptical about things, especially your health but rather than be indecisive we must move forward with our best educated decision about things like diet. If the odd study comes out tomorrow that says highly processed, refined flour is part of a healthy diet it doesn't send me into a tizzy thinking the scientific world is now undecided about white flour. Time has a way to smooth out these irregularities in the data and we have to let time sort out the information after some time for reflection.
There will be more and more studies and examples of people freeing themselves from the crippling effects of chronic disease using diet and lifestyle and it will continue to be subjected to scrutiny. That's a good thing. But when it comes to making decisions about your own health have the good sense to weight the data carefully, examine the particular biases of the people making the claims, and move forward. But don't wait for the "official pronouncement" accompanied by trumpets saying the science says this is beyond reproach. It's never going to happen and all change tends to be gradual, incremental change. We didn't start or stop yanking tonsils and adenoids when kids got colds overnight. Changes came rather slowly and to this day there probably isn't "established science" in when to yank tonsils. It's still a matter of personal decision and conjecture. Don't be the person that fails to act because the data isn't all in. It never is.
And don't fret those that say this doesn't work for some. As Dr. McDougall says, everyone that makes these changes will get better. Will it fix all problems 100% every time? No. But doing this means you will get better. With or without an official pronouncement
f1jim

From... http://www.heartattackproof.com/qanda.htm

In response to the below question Dr. Esselstyn said:


There are so many different diets out there…Paleo, blood type, how do I know which one to choose?

That is not as challenging as it may appear. You can separate hype from scientific reality by seeing if the author has done peer reviewed scientific research prior to bringing the ideas to the public.

I prefer Dr. McDougall's criteria (it's what I eventually used in all the confusion): look at what populations of healthy, lean people eat.

There are many reasons why a diet might not work for a person which might have nothing to do with the diet itself. Someone might just not like the food. Dissolution writes that his wife gags at the smell of cooking vegetables. There might be others in the family who absolutely will not encourage, much less cooperate with the one who wants to completely change his eating habits. Remember Garnet in the movie Chow Down. At home a woe might be easy to follow but if someone travels a lot or has to eat out a lot sticking to the diet might be more challenging than one anticipated. (Although we get reports from McD and Barnard et al about being able to eat out in many restaurants, I have found that while I can get vegies or rice and beans or potatoes, it is almost impossible to get food without some kind of fat or oil. (I wrote about how, even in a hospital and rehab center, the term no oil seemed to have no significance to the kitchen staff and dieticians.)

Another person in the Chow Down movie said if his wife didn't cook for him, he wouldn't be able to follow the diet. He claims he wouldn't cook for himself or he would hire someone. Most can't afford to hire a personal chef.

There are probably lots of other reasons--not the least of which is most absolutely refuse to give up meat and cheese and fat. I know this from double by pass and multiple stent patients in my rehab diet class. The nurse teaching the class knows very well what a good diet is but she actually said to the class that if she taught that no one would follow it so she teaches "moderation"

Didi

Dr. Lundell is a doctor no more. The article you quoted shows his character and that of those who cite him. It is dated 1 March 2013. That dating is dishonest. It has actually been floating around the web for a long time, published as a viral press release for pro-meat and -cholesterol, paleo, and pro-saturated fat ideologues to quote from or publish whole. The book that is treated as being brand new, "The Cure for Heart Disease," is not some new scientific breakthrough publication (it's not a scientific breakthrough at all)--it was published in 2007.

Every six months or so there is a viral outbreak of Lundell's same old press release. Do a search for it on Google and you'll find it all over the web--the same press release, or selected quotations from it on meat ideologues' websites.

Moral of the story is: Don't listen to Limbaugh; nobody should!!!!!!!!!

No one should let any celebrity make nutritional decisions for them, be it a talk show host, actor, musician, even politician. Heck even asking your doctor is a pretty iffy proposition as far as getting good nutritional info.
f1jim

I agree, Jim, and I wish sites like vegsource would stop crowing every time a celebrity says he or she is vegan.

didi

Huh. That is about the least valid inference one could draw from this thread. I think that I'll not listen to it.