Discussion Board

Are these two products allowed on MWL? I can't find anything in the books, and can't find anything here addressing either. They both seem more than okay to me, but I'm wondering why they are not talked about.

I don't think the Walden Farms stuff is the best health wise, although I don't know it's terrible compared to an insulin boost from cane sugar.
But I am humble to someone's expertise.

Thanks.

WRT the Walden Farms, you asked this yesterday and got 15 responses including a very detailed one from AlwaysAgnes that included a suggestion for searching for old threads on the topic. (Because contrary to your assertion that "they are not talked about", it comes up fairly often.) Exactly how much more talking about a processed food do you expect to see on a board that encourages whole foods?

I see you also posted the same question in Jeff's forum. Have you checked out his "stickies" especially the ones about reading food labels?

There is a lot of information to access and absorb, but do take the time to do so. It will pay huge dividends and you will be able to intellegently make these food choices for yourself. Utimately, it is our choice, anyway.

Walden Farms salad dressings are sweetened with splenda.

Here are Dr McD's thoughts on artificial sweeteners:
http://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2006nl/ ... teners.htm

I agree with Serenity about taking the time to through the mcdougall site and forum.

Hi 2b. Can I call you 2b?

Dr Greger did a video on artificial sweeteners a while back. He says xylital is safe in small amounts, but it's not digested into the blood stream and draws water into the bowel. He recommends erythritol, also known as Z. (I don't think I've seen this, but I haven't really looked for it either.) Walden Farms products contain Splenda, which I guess has been linked to migraines.

http://nutritionfacts.org/videos/a-harm ... sweetener/

For regular sweeteners, Dr Greger says date sugar is healthiest, followed by molasses.

http://nutritionfacts.org/videos/the-he ... sweetener/

Hope that helps. He has lots of info on his site.

As for MWL, Dr McDougall doesn't generally recommend artificial sweeteners. I don't think that would be any different for MWL than for the regular program. The more you can get your sweet fix from whole foods the better.
http://www.drmcdougall.com/med_hot_sugar.html
That said, I don't think Dr. McDougall will nail you to a wall or put you in front of the MWL firing squad if you eat a little Walden Farms salad dressing once in a while...or even every day. That's just not his style. (In one of the old threads, someone said s/he had emailed Dr McDougall about Walden Farms dressing, and he responded with "Looks great" or something like that. Remember, we're talking about condiments. These are used in small amounts.)

Life is what happens while you're figuring out which way to go. Do the best you can--whatever that means. I think it means...

Have a great day!

TONS.



Just a guess...

Thanks, some of you are kind and quite helpful and others are rather harsh.
I think that in any new situation there is a learning curve and it would be quite alot nicer if others would stick to being supportive and not so judgemental with others.
I would suggest that if you find yourself irritated by someone's post, skip it and move on to something or someone that you can help with compassion and kindness.

25752B
"Thanks, some of you are kind and quite helpful and others are rather harsh.
I think that in any new situation there is a learning curve and it would be quite a lot nicer if others would stick to being supportive and not so judgmental with others.
I would suggest that if you find yourself irritated by someone's post, skip it and move on to something or someone that you can help with compassion and kindness."

I couldn't have said it any better or kinder than you did. I, myself, have been watching quietly and am now happy to be a registered participant. I lost 35# in approximately 5 months, from 165# to 135-138#, eating a whole food, plant based diet and have maintained it easily for the last 4 months. I also enjoy some Zumba and weight training (not weight lifting) I don't see it as work, but exciting and fun to learn and try new things.
I admire and appreciate Drs. Esselstyn, Colin Campbell, and, of course, Dr. McDougall.

I wish you the best and hope you have a great adventure to health.

I don't think serenity's reply to your question was harsh (if that's what you're referring to). She pointed you in the direction of lots of useful information that's already available on these boards, and to the answers you'd already received to the question you were asking. And I noticed, too, that you seem to have posted this same question on here 4 times in the span of just a day or two - twice in this forum, once in MWL and once in Jeff Novick's forum.

I've found people on these boards to be very helpful and supportive, even though many of the same questions get asked over and over by new arrivals. But if you have a question that really worries you, it's probably a good idea just to post it once then stick around and wait for the answers before posting it again. You can always "bump" your own post back up to the top by posting in the same thread again, if you feel your question has been overlooked or if you need more clarification.

Best wishes!

Dr. McDougall has a saying that this is not an 'all or nothing' plan. The closer you come to 100% compliance, the better you will do - but - you will still see results even if you are 90% compliant, too.

For me, while this is undoubtably true, it leads to a dangerous 'quagmire of compromises' where it's easy to get stuck with bad choices like diet salad dressing, diet coke, vegan coffee creamer, commercial peanut butter, Earth Balance, white bread-rice-pasta (sorry Dr. M we'll have to agree to disagree on this point), etc. which we end up buying and eating to avoid a worse choice - even when a BETTER choice exists.

I think a better term than 'MWL-legal' or 'on-program' or even 'allowed' is 'health-supporting' because it removes the concept of 'diet food' and replaces it with 'healthy food'. When I bought the first McDougall book 'The McDougall Plan' back in the 1980s, I also picked up Mary McDougall's first cookbook which was titled 'The McDougall Health-Supporting Cookbook' and that term has stuck with me ever since.

When shopping for food or even condiments, I utilize this term as I read the labels. Will this food support my OVERALL health is the question I ask myself, NOT will this food speed up my weight-loss or -alternatively - feed my addictions (ie make me feel temporarily better about my stupid boss/husband/wife/child).

Weight-loss is only one aspect of health, and although its an important one, it can't be your only focus or you'll be drawn away into the next Internet diet you stumble upon. It HAS to be about your health.

A good rule of thumb for determining if a food is 'health-supporting' is if you look at a label and it contains ingredients you couldn't locate without a chemical supply catalog then put it back on the shelf. If it contains oil, put it back on the shelf, if it contains more sodium per serving than calories put it back on the shelf, if it contains animal products, including casein from milk, put it back on the shelf, if it contains high fructose corn syrup or artificial sweeteners, put it back on the shelf.

Emily Boller who blogs on Dr. Fuhrman's Diseaseproof.com blog did a post a while back on the powerful snare of compromise

http://www.diseaseproof.com/archives/em ... omise.html

It ends with the phrase:

Seeds of compromise sown into the soil of our lives will eventually produce a harvest of addiction.  Guaranteed.

Indeed they will.

Kate

Great thoughts, Kate! I wholeheartedly agree.

Besides, in my early Mcd-ing days, I wasted a good $40-$50 on different Walden Farms salad dressings and had to actually throw them all out. They range from no taste whatsoever to nasty-tasting. Yuck, yuck, yuck.

Great summation, Katydid. Couldn't agree more with the fact that weight loss is simply a wonderful benefit of health supporting foods Did I read somewhere that you live in Michigan? I'm in Saginaw and am looking for Michiganders on the boards. Do you know of any?

The thing I like about this plan is it gives you a way to work with your appetite rather than fighting it. If you choose whole natural foods with low average calorie density, your weight will stabilize at a low-normal BMI, your tastes will change so that you appreciate the more subtle flavors of real food, and you will gain the best health benefits diet can offer. Consuming a calorie-free chemical product artificially engineered to taste like food seems like it just works against that. I would think you'd be getting less pleasure from your food, since it would keep you acclimated to intense flavors. It can't possibly satisfy hunger. You're better off training yourself to enjoy less fake flavor and more real food.

I agree they are horrible tasting. I tried the Caesar salad dressing once and it was just very bad. I can eat salad plain these days, I prefer the taste without dressing or maybe a tiny bit of balsamic vinegar.