Discussion Board

Am wondering about wine, beer...specially wine. I know it will slow down fat loss, but since it is not completely excluded on the diet, what are your experiences with using it occasionally?

Also, does anyone take a day "off" by eating some of the foods not allowed on MWL plans...you know, a glass of wine or two and some nuts & olives? As a dinner maybe? Or is that indeed "nuts!!"?

See our responses on your other thread.

If you're looking for permission to cheat on the plan, you're not terribly likely to find it here.

I never was much of a drinker even though I brew my own beer and make my own wine. Since beginning MWL I limit the beer intake to about 4 oz a week and about the same for wine. My wife has 1 beer a day on the weekend and very little wine.

Once I reach my goal weight I'll probably have 1-2 beers a week and maybe 2 glasses of wine a week.

These threads about what is "allowed" confuse me. Anything is allowed. Even oil, met, dairy etc.. Before anybody jumps on me, let me explain...

You're an adult and you can choose to eat or drink whatever you would like to. You will also face the consequences of those choices.

If you want to see the best health and the fastest, most permanent weight loss, then choose the lowest calorie dense, least processed, whole, plant foods you can find. Stock your home with them, cook at home, learn to cope with social situations, get rid of any less-than-stellar foods in your home, eat to full satisfaction. Keep your seasoning to herbs and spices, and completely avoid all meat, dairy, oil, nuts, seeds, juice/wine, sugar, refined foods, flours etc..

If your goal is to see if you can eat a bit healthier and you hope to lose a few pounds (maybe), you can achieve that by eating all sorts of less-than-stellar foods (ie. nuts/seeds/avocado on the healthier side, processed foods and oils and refined foods on the unhealthy side).

Some people can eat a lot of less-than-stellar foods and get decent results. Good for them. Some people can just look at a peanut and gain a pound. Bad for them...except that maybe they'll have more motivation to make stellar food choices and will enjoy better health in the years to come.

My point is, please don't look for permission from anyone in terms of what you're allowed to eat.

If you want to be the healthiest, thinnest version of yourself you can be, choose MWL and low-calorie dense, nutritient-rich food and don't compromise.

If your goal is not that lofty, then choose whichever point on the spectrum between SAD and MWL that you are comfortable staying at. Go ahead and include the wine, olives, bread etc..- whatever you believe you can't live without. Just don't come back here in six months and complain that you are not the healthiest, thinnest version of yourself.

Accept that you are responsible for the consequences of your dietary choices, decide which kind of results you will set as your goal, eat the foods that will get you there, and stop looking for loopholes. There are none.

Appreciate the feedback. I do believe that each person needs to find a balance that works for them. In being new to this way of life and way of eating, it helps to be able to ask what others do and what they experience to get a big view of the landscape.

I had hopes that there would be few judgements here and a collective support, not an 'in' club and and 'out' club. I fear that sometimes if someone "violates" a rule it is very threatening to those holding fast. I'd hope to see that there is greater tolerance and understanding--- as all of us are coming from something that woke us up.

No one here feels threatened, LOL. But folks seem to forget that they are not the only ones reading these threads. THOUSANDS of people read them--many of whom are entirely new to the program and many of whom DO wish to adhere tightly to the plan in order to get the maximum health benefits.

So ask your questions, but you might want to alter your definition of "support." "Support" does NOT mean, "Sure, do whatever you want!" It means helping you adhere to this WOE. If that's not what you want to do at heart, then you probably won't get much help here. That's just a fact. If you DO want to follow the plan, you will get all the support you can handle!

ETeSelle - I always love your posts.

So maybe we are reading a different book, because in mine McDougal never says you can never have those "bad" foods again. In fact he says you can "feast" on special occasions like birthdays, holidays, etc, just not every day.

For my Partner and I, been on the MWL plan for a month, it was very difficult to transition for certain things and in the past this difficulty would cause us to fall off the wagon for days and eventually abandon the plan. So in taking on this plan, we decided to give ourselves one meal a week that we didn't think about and just eat what we want and drink what we want. But we did this with the intention of spacing these "free" meals out until its only holidays and special occasions as the book recommends. So far its working and I have lost 10 pounds.

Initially its all we could do to make it to that Saturday, but after a month, we find ourselves not splurging on that meal as we did that first week. In fact now it makes us feel somewhat ill to eat dairy and such.

My point is that if having olives and wine once a week means you follow the plan the entire rest of the time, its good, but only if you have the end goal of eliminating it. And that is not saying that everyone should do it, it just depends on who you are, where you're coming from and what your goals are. It's not fair for others to make you feel like a criminal for this. Every person comes into this program from a different part of life with different goals. There is no set time and the goal is to be healthy and happy, not feel like you're under the gun.

In time you will recognize certain individuals who are more understanding than others. Some... not so much...

Just use a little bit of common sense in what you choose to eat or drink off plan and you will do fine. I have a beer, glass of wine or even a chocolate malt once in a while... and the occasional egg breakfast (from my own free range chickens)now and then. Still averaging about a 1 lb loss every day and just about reached my goal of losing 101 lbs since mid December... Should be at 195 lbs in another 2-3 days.

The more weight you want to lose the closer to the MWL you should probably adhere to. The healthier you want to become... the closer to the whole vegan sans added oils and fats you should adhere to.

We all make hundreds of risk vs reward decisions everyday... the choices are yours... I wish you the best in whatever you choose...

I think there are those who are into strict compliance, and others who know they will cheat, now and again - have a glass of wine or olives in a social setting - and the question centers more around what cheat foods/drinks one is better off choosing...if one has decided to cheat or "feast".

I'm identifying with the poster in this, as I just had lunch with a girlfriend yesterday, and I knew I was going to have a few drinks. I CHOSE to have a cheat moment. It wasn't a question of "if" but rather "what" would be the lesser of evils? A glass or two of red wine or a vodka soda?

I personally find that wine derails my weight loss efforts, but vodka, strangely, doesn't. So, I opted for the cocktail. I'm not sure why that is - they both should be roughly the same calories, but everybody reacts differently, and I think that's the kind of input the poster is asking for....not permission to cheat, but honest feedback about how certain cheat foods or drinks might impact weight loss.

Of course, she knows she'll lose slower if she cheats sometimes, but that may be acceptable to her. It is to me because I don't have much to lose. If I were looking at a lot of weight loss, I'd try to be a lot more compliant so it would happen quicker. But, at close to goal weight, I don't care as much whether I make it in 2 months or 2 weeks....at least not enough to pass on the cocktail. And once I reach goal, I hope I will be able to indulge in alcohol now and again and still maintain.

I just want to make clear the fact that I am not saying "you must eat perfectly, or don't bother at all".

What I am saying is that nobody needs "permission" to eat any food. The reality is we are all free to choose to eat whatever foods we would like to eat.

Nobody can tell another person whether or not a bit of oil, or a bit of sugar, or a bit of wine, or a bit of refined flour, will either hurt them or be harmless. Therefore, i think it's not our place to give somebody else "permission" to eat a less-than-optimal food.

My point is just to know that less-than-optimal foods are likely to lead to less-than-optimal results. We shouldn't be surprised by that. But, that is not to say that less-than-optimal foods need to be eliminated, just that nobody should expect to come on the forum and have people tell them that "a bit of oil, a bit of sugar, a bit of wine...etc. won't hurt". It might, it might not. It is not our place to say that.

That said, if these "digressions" allow somebody to maintain an excellent health-supporting diet the majority of the time, it might be worth it to them. The level of diet "cleanliness" is an individual choice. The more we move in the direction of 100% whole, low fat plant foods, the better our results will likely be.

I am suggesting that we each take personal responsibility for our food choices and not rely on others to give us permission to put certain foods into our body. Everything is permissible on the McDougall plan (even oil and dairy and meat provided they are eaten in the context of "feast days"). The question we must each ask ourselves is "which foods, in which amounts, are helpful/harmful to me in body, spirit, mind, and emotion?".

I wish everyone all the best as they pursue their best health.
lfwfv

Hasn't Dr. McDougall said this isnt an all or nothing program?

I'm not sure having a glass of wine a night or 2 a week is all bad or even a beer. Even coffee doesnt make or break the plan. There is a star McDougaller that drinks wine often, even goes wine tasting.

I think its just like anything else. You have to know yourself and how you can handle the "gray" areas. Alcohol isnt forbidden, just not optimal.

For some sugar in any amount is bad for others the small amount Dr. M says is fine works. Samething for salt or even an off plan meal a time or two a year. If it derails you completely, then dont do it.

I have an occasional glass of wine. I may open a bottle have 1 glass let it sit for a month, have 1 more then let it sit then cook with it. But I never was a drinker. The only drink I like is kaluha and cream. The wine is the better choice if I choose to partake

Debbie and lfwfv, your posts are great. I think that's what needed to be said.

I can understand a harsh response if someone came on here and asked, "What about steak? Can't I still eat some meat now and then?"

But wine is something that I think falls into a category of an acceptable indulgence, and one that many reasonable people don't want to give up entirely. The question is more about how can we indulge and mitigate the impact to weight loss, and I would say that it's the same as if you eat a few cookies or slice of birthday cake - those calories need to be accounted for and taken away from another meal that day or the following day, and you'll probably be fine.

One of the things that always bothered me when I was low-carbing is that there was talk of "maintenance levels" of carbs and healthy grains being added back in, as people lost weight, but the reality is that most adherents to that diet came to view all starches/grains as "bad" foods. So no one would ever tell you that it would be ok to eat a potato - that it wouldn't kill you or make you gain 5 pounds overnight. Ultimately, nobody knew how to add these "bad" foods back into their diets, and when faced with the overly strict nature of never enjoying a carb again, many gave up trying.

Now, that's a good thing with low carb, except they didn't quit and start eating potatoes and brown rice. They quit and started eating sugar and refined garbage again.

My point is that it's important to let people know exactly what both of you said - that there is flexibility on this WOE for some less than optimal choices, especially if this helps someone stick with the plan most of the time.