Discussion Board

Speaking of deductive problem solving, I have two quotes by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle hanging over my desk at work:

"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts...."

Sherlock Holmes, in "A Scandal in Bohemia"

and

"In solving a problem of this sort, the grand thing is to be able to reason backwards. That is a very useful accomplishment, and a very easy one, but people do not practise it much."

Sherlock Holmes, in "A Study in Scarlet"

By having data (be it in a lab notebook or a food journal) you can reason backwards when something goes wrong. I'm far too old to rely on memory

Kate

Thanks (I scream ?)--here in the belly of the beast.

I found the quotes very helpful while learning the "profession". I wish I could find the picture from engine2 site that showed "what success looks like". Its not a straight upward trend. It is forward, backward, up and down and all sorts of circles.

I weighed myself this morning and I was happy to note that my current weight is 142 pounds. That's 20 pounds down from my peak of 162 from last September. At that time I made some very important changes not in what I eat, but in how I eat, and stopped all in-between meal snacking. By the time MikeT's Halloween-to-New Years challenge came along, I was down to 155 pounds and, as I say, I've lost another 13 pounds since then through calorie-density manipulation and increased exercise.

What shocked me was the difference 20 pounds can make on a 'normal weight' person. Even at 162 I was still in the 'normal' BMI range. But just in the last month I've dropped inches from my waist. And all I've been doing is increasing the number of steps I walk each day. It's not like I took a belly dancing class

A pair of size 12 pants that fit me last month we're literally falling off of me Thursday. I had to wear an extra long sweater to keep my 'granny panties' from showing. I even had to safety pin my slip to my bra the other day as it would not stay up. Looks like I need to make another clothing swap at Goodwill. Hope they have a good selection of size 8.

I mention this not to brag, but to point out that small consistent changes add up. 20 pounds in six months isn't going to set any weight-loss record, and many people wouldn't think walking 10,000 steps a day qualifies as being fit, but it makes a difference over time.

The following is from Jeff Novick's blog. I have tried to incorporate all of his suggestions. It's nothing Dr. McDougall (or Fuhrman for that matter) doesn't preach, I just like the way Jeff says it:

" Weighing yourself on a scale on a weekly basis is the best method to tell if you are in a negative calorie balance. On average, you should be able to safely and healthfully lose about 1% of your weight a week and maybe even more. That is an average over time and some weeks will be better and some weeks will be less. While it may not seem like much, if you multiply the number out by 12 weeks or 24 weeks or 52 weeks, this could be 24, 48 or 100 lbs lost.
If weight is not coming off as fast as you would like, then you have to make some adjustments to what you are doing. There are several adjustments you can make in regard to the caloric in end and the caloric out end.

In regard to calories out, you have three areas you can adjust which are frequency, intensity and time (FIT). You can exercise on more days or more times in a day (Frequency), you can raise the intensity of your exercise (Intensity), and/or you can do it for a longer period of time (Time).

In regard to calories out, you can lower the calorie density of the diet, by shifting the composition of your meals to include more foods that are the lowest in calorie density (vegetables, salads, soups, fruit, etc)

In addition, the following items are also known (and proven) to reduce calorie intake
- Calorie density- Make sure 1/3 to 1/2 of the bulk/volume of all your meals are low calorie dense vegetables

- Salt - the less you salt your food, the less people tend to eat

- Variety- the less variety of food at a meal, the less food consumed. 

- Raw Foods - Foods you can eat raw tend to be lower in calorie density and you may not digest as efficiently. Cooking begins the digestion process.

- Sequencing - Eating the lowest calorie dense foods first, fills you up so you eat less of the higher calorie dense foods

- Make sure you are avoiding all higher fat, calorie dense plant foods, nuts, seeds, oils, avocados, tofu, etc

- Make sure you are avoiding all refined processed grains and starches, (breads, bagels, crackers, cookies, dry cereal, etc and anything made from ground up flour) even if they are whole grain

-Avoid all refined concentrated sugars/sweeteners, even if they are natural and organic 

If you do this, and make adjustments as necessary, you will lose weight."

This comes from Part 2 of an excellent blog post on 'can you overeat on healthy food' (Oh, yes! ):

http://www.jeffnovick.com/RD/Blog/Entri ... _Pt_1.html

http://www.jeffnovick.com/RD/Blog/Entri ... _Pt_2.html

Kate

Excellent post, Kate! CONGRATULATIONS!! It's so exciting to see that the little changes you made and stuck to over time have made such a huge difference! You must feel so great! Thanks for keeping this journal so we can all benefit from your experience and success. I'm looking forward to the 12s I'm wearing right now falling off of me soon! You are really an inspiration...and a reminder that we never stop learning, no matter how long we've been doing this or how much success we've had! Thanks!

Thanks Katydid.

This is where I want to go and if I can keep my head together through daily trials and tribulations, or just fall apart and not try to stuff my face to compensate, I will follow those guidelines and get back on track. I want this last bit of fat to come off but I've lost inspiration or rather I'm really going in circles.

Thanks Katydid!! I am going to do this as well. I need to, for my HBP. Nothing else has ever worked for me, except the McDougall plan. So I have loved your story!! and your advice too. Will be stepping up my program as of now!

Haven't posted in awhile. Been busy watching the videos from the ASW .

A few years back I joined the National Weight Control Registry:
http://www.nwcr.ws/

Every year I have to fill out a survey - which is actually kind of fun as I get to skew the data a bit How many times a week do you eat beef, chicken, fish, cheese, eggs, etc.? Umm, that would be zero. How often do you eat fast food? Never. How many servings of vegetables do you eat a day? > 9. And so forth.

The results of the survey is available to researchers to parse endlessly. One study I read recently wrote about something I've discovered for myself recently. That I do better when I limit variety to a few simple low-calorie density meals. For example the following article in nature:

http://www.nature.com/oby/journal/v13/n ... 5102a.html

Amount of Food Group Variety Consumed in the Diet and Long-Term Weight Loss Maintenance

Registry participants generally report consuming a low-energy diet, with women consuming approximately 5439 kJ/d (1300 kcal/d) and men consuming approximately 7113 kJ/d (1700 kcal/d). There are several strategies, including reducing portion size and energy density of the diet, which can be used to help reduce energy intake. This study also suggests that limiting dietary variety may be helpful for reducing energy intake over an extended time. Although limiting overall dietary variety may help registry participants sustain a low energy intake for long periods, it is important to observe the percentage of variety that is occurring in the different food groups to provide a sense of the types of foods that registry participants are most likely to include in their regular eating pattern. The food groups with the greatest amount of variety are the Low Fat (LF) food groups from the bottom of the Food Group Pyramid (FGP) e.g., LF bread, cereals, rice, and pasta; fruits; and LF vegetables, whereas foods that are less nutrient-dense and closer to the top of the FGP have less variety (fats, oils, and sweets; and High Fat (HF) foods from the five main food groups). Indeed, the largest difference in food group variety between registry members and recent weight losers was found in the food group from the top of the FGP, fats, oils, and sweets. Therefore, although overall dietary variety is low in registry participants, they are consuming more variety in nutrient-dense and LF-dense foods than in other food groups. With respect to levels of variety consumed in the different food groups, this style of eating is in accordance with current dietary recommendations.

And here's another example:

In another study, researchers analyzed more than 2,000 NWCR participants' variety of foods consumed within different food groups via a food-frequency questionnaire.The findings suggest that successful weight loss maintainers consume a diet with limited variety in all food groups. Therefore, restricting variety within all food groups may help with consuming a low-calorie diet and maintaining long-term weight loss.Dieting consistency and a low frequency of dieting also seem to enhance successful weight loss maintenance. Thus, persons who maintain a stable day-to-day diet and do not appreciably change their diet on weekends, holidays, or special occasions tend to experience less weight regain over the subsequent year and are 1.5 times more likely to maintain their weight loss.
 
1. The majority of members report continuing to limit the types of foods eaten, as they did when they were losing weight. They mostly follow a low calorie and low fat intake.
2. Eating regular meals is reported to be a key to weight loss maintenance - and most participants indicate that they would eat breakfast daily.
3. In order to keep track of their weight regularly and notice small "slips" (and weight regain), most members weigh themselves at least once a week, sometimes up to once a day.
4. Most of those surveyed indicate being physically active for approximately one hour every day (or the equivalent of walking 4 miles/day).
5. Success in maintaining weight loss over the long term (one to two years) was achieved by NWCR participants who were most consistent with physical activity and planning of dietary intake (low calorie and low fat diet) throughout weekdays, weekends, and holidays.
6. The longer someone is able to maintain a weight loss (example: if they were able to preserve the weight loss for two to five years) the greater the chance of keeping the weight off.
7. The variety of foods eaten is limited in order to control the calorie intake of foods. The most variety of foods eaten by the NWCR participants surveyed was from nutrient-dense food groups such as grains, fruits and vegetables.
 
I think this type of information fits well with Dr. McDougall's 'Help for the Volume Eater' and Jeff's calorie-density lectures. I try to focus on getting a wide variety of 'green and yellow' vegetables while at the same time keeping my meals very simple and routine. Oatmeal and fruit, SNAP, salad, stir-fy, grain. But the variety of vegetables that go into those meals is huge:

Oatmeal, banana, blueberries, flax seeds, turnip greens, diced turnips, peas, corn, carrots, lima beans, green beans, brussel sprouts, sweet potatoes, tomatoes, apples, oranges, spinach, lettuce, red pepper, sprouts, cucumber, onion, garlic, garbonzo beans, black beans, broccoli, baby corn, red cabbage, bok choi, mushrooms, snap peas, brown rice, quinoa, sesame seeds, and so on.

Thank goodness I can get fresh and frozen vegetables on the cheap at Sam's Club and Aldi's.

Kate

Hey, Kate! I just wanted to share that I made the potato bean casserole dish you shared here (thanks so much for that and everything else!) only you had me sufficiently scared about gaining weight on it that I went ahead and threw in some frozen broccoli, cauliflower, and mustard greens with the beans and then after I put it in the oven I noticed I had some tomatoes about to go bad so I sliced them on top. I used fresh shredded potatoes and I'm not sure what to do there because even after a couple hours in the oven the potatoes tasted raw to me? It was like they got too dry to cook...? I tried scooping some liquid from the bottom and pouring it over the top and that did help some. Besides that it was a bit hit (except with one of my kids whose been on a major anti-greens campaign for the last year), especially with dh. Anyways, I don't know how much difference ultimately in calorie density adding in the veggies made, but the cauliflower, broccoli, and greens were really good baked with that faux cheesy sauce... so simple and such a treat, maybe even with more sliced tomatoes and less beans it might almost be doable as a meal by itself (as it is, even with the addition of veggies it seemed so 'hearty' I was really wanting a light soup/salad or something to go with it). This was my first time making a faux cheese with beans instead of nuts, I was surprised how yummy it was, my dh insisted I add it to the meal rotation. Because it is on the more calorie dense side, this makes a great *quick* to eat take along lunch for long days... so say my college student and working hubby! Now that I think about it, this would probably work great to freeze in individual servings for future lunches, think I will have to whip up another batch.

Looking forward to reading your thoughts on the ASW!

Oh Katydid, thank you so much!! Your journal is wonderful, and exactly what I need at this time. I have read every word, but I'm going to go back to some of the videos and links. I appreciated your help on the ASW thread in the lounge, and I really appreciate your help here. Please visit my new journal if you have a chance. I got a pedometer right after Christmas, and recently stopped wearing it. I had a few days of 10,000 steps, but many more of just 7 or 8 thousand. Your information is amazing, and so very helpful. Thank you so much. Take care, LauraA

I came across the following post over on Dr Fuhrman's message board. While it was written by a different 'Jim' it could just as easily have been written by our own f1jim if you change 'nutritarian' to 'McDougaller'

"Maybe some people don't have issues, but I don't know very many of them. For the rest of us, issues are part of the equation, but what can we do about them?

One answer is that we can take better care of ourselves.

It's not just that we feel better about ourselves when we know we're taking better care of ourselves by following a nutritarian diet. We do, because we know what we're doing is healthy, good for us, and is helping to reverse illness producing habits, and behaviors, but that's just part of the story.

When we take better care of ourselves we are saying to everyone - our parents, our spouse, our boss, anyone who's ever been nasty to us - that we're getting stronger no matter what they think, or do, or did. It's a strong message, and it can generalize. We're fed up, and we're not going to take it anymore.

Being a committed nutritarian also goes a long way to healing the parts of us that need healing. I mean the emotional parts, the cognitive parts, the core of our being, and the parts of our brains and minds that got screwed up by whatever may have hurt us in the past.

This diet is exceedingly powerful. It's power is limited by how well we apply ourselves to making it a part of our lives. It just doesn't help us a bit to put our energies into all the myriad ways we can find for excusing ourselves from getting on with fixing our lives via this simple, powerful tool.

In my opinion, we have to be careful not to encourage each other to give in to anything short of a full application of nutritarianism.

Yes, we're all human. No, we don't have to be perfect, and we're not going to be.

I tell my patients that I want to hear their complaints. I have to hear their complaints to know what's going on. But, I only have to hear it once. After that, it's just complaining.

Let's fix our issues. Let's fix our health. Let's help each other get on with it.

Jim"

Great advice. There's a real strength in being truly committed to a project - God knows plenty of my friends think I should be committed every time they get another lecture about the evils of dairy .

Kate

Hi Kate,

I absolutely love your journal. I find value in every post you make. Thank you so much for your quality input, helpful insight, and wonderful tools. You make this life style make sense and seem so desireable and achievable.

Thank you.

Katydid - what Weespeck said!

Seriously, though, your journal is informative, inspiring and broad, yet always so relevant. I look forward to each new post, even beyond being so very impressed by your continuing accomplishments.

Thank you.

Nicole

File this under yet another reason to not take supplements.

I spent the last two days in the hospital when one of my 'horsepill' vitamins (I think it was the D3) got stuck in my esophagus right below my larynx. I woke up Thursday at 1:30 AM choking and unable to swallow -not even my own saliva. Note: you have no idea just how much saliva your body produces until you have to keep spitting it out!

I went to my doctor, who sent me to the hospital with a fear of tumors on my throat and had an emergency upper GI endoscopic exam where they removed a wad of half dissolved vitamins and mucus. Ick. Turns out I have a very narrow esophagus.

They kept me overnight to make sure I was able to swallow this morning, and now I'm on a soft food (soup and oatmeal) diet for the next few days. Maybe I'll make a green smoothie for dinner

One thing I learned is I can fast for 24 hours without it killing me. I've always wanted to do a once a week fast but was too scared to try. Not being able to swallow is one tough way to fast.

Lesson learned. If I feel the need to take a pill I'm supposed to cut it in half and drink a full glass of water with it - not chuck a handful down at one time with a couple of sips .

A couple of notes about hospital food. Nurses don't really seem to get the difference between vegetarian and vegan. Because I was on a soft food diet I got sent oatmeal, scrambled eggs, jello, vanilla Silk, a banana and frozen custard (for breakfast?). The nutritionist who was sent up to scrutinize my vegan diet was morbidly obese. Should I have a problem taking advice from a 300 pound nutritional advisor?

I also got the whole hospital work-up. I had a PILL stuck in my throat for God's sake. Yet I had my blood drawn three times. Why? They didn't just remove the pill from my throat, they took a biopsy of the esophagus. It's like they were looking for something else to be wrong with me. They even sent a respiratory therapist in to give me a asthma treatment that I didn't need. Him I shooed away. But I bet I'm going to be charged for his consultation. Bah! I hate being treated like I'm some sick old woman when I'm not.

Kate

Yowza. Glad you're okay now.

I'd love to have been a fly on the wall for the conversation from the so-called nutritionist.

Sorry to hear about your hospital visit. Glad you are OK.
When in a Dr. office or hospital it uncanny how many are obese.
I love reading your journal and post.
Take Care, Lucille