I wanted it to work, but...

[potchneeyoung]

What kind of rice are you eating and how are you cooking it? Is it brown rice? If so, are you washing the rice with water before cooking to get rid of any contaminants or pesticides? Is it white rice, which means its probably being fortified with other things which you might be allergic to? If white rice, do you rinse it with water before cooking (which is common with Asian families), which means you might also be washing away added vitamins besides dirt and contaminants. Are you eating instant rice or pre - prepared rice? If so, is there any oil or other chemicals or additives in it? Dr. Mcdougall prefers brown rice (most Asians do not because of cultural reasons and financial reasons, not medical reasons) because of the fiber, phytonutrients , and natural vitamins. Just trying to help as to possible other reasons this diet is not working for you yet? Good luck in finding answers .

[nicoles]

double post deleted - see below for the "real" post

[nicoles]

Hi Nicoles,Thank you for sharing your experience with me. How many months did it take for you to start feeling better?

I was VERY inflamed before I started this WOE, and within the first 10 days I had a noticeable improvement, but I was in terrible shape, far worse than what you describe - I could not walk, roll over in bed, use my hands, and everything I did hurt.

After the initial de-inflammation I still had many aches and pains, but their decrease happened very gradually and is still happening today - it was never really like "Oh! Incredibly overnight, my pain is GONE" it was more like, "Oh hey, wait - look at this thing I can do that I could not do before."

One of the difficulties with tracking a pain decrease is that it is subjective and it is subtle - sort of like watching your hair grow. It grows and grows and then one day you realize it has grown - but it was growing all the time. Also, what might be a high level of pain for me now, compared to my baseline, would have been a very "low" level year ago.

I have discovered over this past year that refined sugar of any type - honey, maple syrup, dried fruit or too much very ripe fruit - gives me pain, that salt, soy sauce or Bragg's Aminos causes a flare in pain, and that eating low-nutrient carbohydrates like white rice (maybe because they convert to sugar) cause me pain.

Caffeine and alcohol are absolute no-nos for me. Vinegar ans miso as well, perhaps because of the fermentation. Ah well, all for the best.

I also discovered that the mangoes and carrots I was eating on my initial elimination diet (which I am still on, by the way, and have been on it since May with slow additions of foods) caused an insidious inflammation, not dramatic pain. After three weeks off of them, I felt dramatically better.

I also have learned that I need to eat a lot of raw vegetables and salads in relation to starches and beans to feel good, along the lines of the MWL (maximum weight loss, found here: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=26620&hilit=Maximum) guidelines, and that the optional 1 tablespoon of ground flax seed in the diet made a world of difference for me after 4 weeks.

It is also important to remember that the medications for most autoimmune disease, except for the NSAIDS, are expected to take 3-6 months to work. It is no surprise to me that diet would take as long or longer.

(Unfortunately, many of the examples of autoimmune sufferes on this site in the Star McDougaller section seem to have recovered in 2 weeks to 4 months, which is wonderful for them but discouraging to us slowbies... )

I would not give up yet. When I feel discouraged, I have other milestones to boost me - I lost 40 pounds, give or take, and went down 5 dress sizes, lowered my blood pressure, lowered my cholesterol and lowered my fasting sugars, which were OK to begin with but still, better to have them on the low side. I no longer get cramps during menstruation, and I have loads more energy.

So I would encourage you not to give up, but to strengthen your resolve, dig in, and commit to getting to the bottom of the diet side of your disease, and avoid taking toxic medications as long as possible. Pain is terrible, there is no doubt, and it is not a walk in the park, but the rewards are great!

Nicole

[Mari]

What kind of rice are you eating and how are you cooking it? Is it brown rice?

I hope I did the quote above right.

I was eating brown organic rice and rinsed it and then boiled it (I didn't use oil). I'm no longer following the rice diet because my eczema was showing up whenever I ate the rice. I can eat a little bit of brown rice, but that's it.
I know what you mean. It's hard to understand how this diet can work for so many people and show improvements in a few days, but not for me. I was in desbelief, that's why I did it for 24 days. Then I started thinking that maybe I'm deficient in some vitamins or minerals or something. Because my problem didn't get better, it actually got worse. I clarify again, I'm not saying that the diet made it worse, my feeling was more like my problem was getting worse. And the diet was not making any difference.

[Mari]

It is also important to remember that the medications for most autoimmune disease, except for the NSAIDS, are expected to take 3-6 months to work. It is no surprise to me that diet would take as long or longer.

Thank you Nicole. I'm not taking any kind of medication. The dr. told me to take something but I'm not taking anything. I can handle the pain and the pain reminds me that there's something wrong inside that I need to help my body heal.
The dr. told me that with speckled pattern a lot of people are in a wheelchair. That I'm in great shape. But since my pain is getting worse, then I wonder sometimes if I'm going to end up in a wheelchair. I mean, how did those people in a wheel chair started? they probably started with a little bit of pain and then it got worse.
I want to be positive, but every morning that I wake up with pain in my hands and then when I start walking my ankles and my knees hurt.

I think I'll know more with the additional tests I had done. One more week and I'll have the results.

Thanks again for sharing

[nicoles]

...I know what you mean. It's hard to understand how this diet can work for so many people and show improvements in a few days, but not for me. I was in desbelief, that's why I did it for 24 days. Then I started thinking that maybe I'm deficient in some vitamins or minerals or something. Because my problem didn't get better, it actually got worse. ...

My improvement increased dramatically when I started eating way more raw and cooked non-starchy veggies, which are chock-full of known and unknown nutrients. Deficiency certainly could be an aspect.

The dr. told me that with speckled pattern a lot of people are in a wheelchair. That I'm in great shape. But since my pain is getting worse, then I wonder sometimes if I'm going to end up in a wheelchair. I mean, how did those people in a wheel chair started? they probably started with a little bit of pain and then it got worse.
I want to be positive, but every morning that I wake up with pain in my hands and then when I start walking my ankles and my knees hurt.

It is hard when doctors are so negative - I have had my share of them! It is impossible to know what will happen for sure, of course, but that does not mean it won't improve, once you find out just the right specific modifications you need. Have you read Burgess' blog?

this post:

http://anti-itisdiet.blogspot.com/2007/ ... ution.html

and this one:

http://anti-itisdiet.blogspot.com/

give real insight into the extent of what may need to be done to heal yourself, although I am not saying in any way that what you will need to do will be identical or even similar to what he did and is doing.

[Herbivore]

Hi Mari
I'm sorry that you're faced with this pain. I hope that you will find a way to relieve it.
Can I suggest that even if this way of eating doesn't seem to be having a direct effect on the pain, it will help support the health of your body generally, while it tries to deal with whatever is wrong. Therefore, even if your pain solution lies elsewhere, its worth eating this way for all of the other benefits that it brings.
I don't remember whose quote this is (maybe Jeff) that in seeking wellness "healthy eating is never contraindicated"!

[Mari]

Got my results back and they show that I'm deficient in:
Pantothenate (b5)
Glutamine Insulin Interaction
Chromium
Coenzyme Q-10
Selenium
Vitamin E
Copper

I'm not familiar with a lot of these, so now I'll have to spend some time finding out more. Vitamin E is so low that is ridiculous. I was reading that the lack of vitamin E could cause joint pain. But then a lof of the vitamin deficiencies could cause joint pain.
I started drinking filtered water when I moved to the US 18 years ago. That might explain the copper deficiency? Who knows.

I can report back once I bring these levels up and see if I feel better. Now I feel like I have more of a clear direction in my eating habits.

The Glutamine-Insulin interaction is pretty interesting because it's related to diabetes. I'm not overweight and many times people relate diabetes with being overweight.

Ok, I don't even know much about what I'm talking about. All I know are my results and I now have the importan job to bring these levels up! I'm actually kind of excited!

The test also comes with recommendations of amounts to bring the levels up.