Discussion Board

Thanks Nicole.

I'm thinking right now that I need to cook up a batch of 'mixed' veggies from the fridge and freezer. I like having a nice big batch of pre-mixed, cooked veggies to toss into all sorts of things.

I didn't have a large breakfast, so I'm 'sitting with' some real hunger right now to re-quaint myself with what it feels like, and that it won't kill me to feel this way.

Maybe it's time to do some nice distracting work.
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After doing the dishes and cooking lots of veggies, Dendra and two of her playful 'inner children' decide to look for lizards in the garden of eden.

Interesting, about the hunger thing. I find that when I am not working, I tend to eat later in the am, then I find I skip a meal. Lunch, as I am just not hungry. By dinnertime, I am usually ready to eat again. When I am working, I am hungry a lot sooner & I will usually have a snack before lunch. I almost always eat 3 meals a day when I am working. I know there have been times, when I did feel what I think might be what they feel they have to name, as toxic hunger. It is just withdrawl to me, maybe that is the same thing, I dont know. I am not necessarily physically hungry & I usually dont want just any food, I want sweets or something along that line. And I dont feel that it ever really goes away, at least for me, it is always waiting to pounce on me when I may feel vulnerable. Some have said 30 days, some say 60 days, for cravings to go away, but it has to be an individual thing. I have days when I come on this board, start reading someone's Journal, they start talking about some food they ate, wham, I want it. It is almost harder than when I just get a thought in my head about some food. So I find myself staying away from the boards for a longer time. Personally I like feeling hungry, not ravenous, just normal it is time to fuel my body kind of hunger. I dont like that feeling, that if I dont eat, I am going to pass out. I haven't had that for quite a while & I find that the sooner I eat when I feel that regular hunger, the better off I am. My cravings stay away when I eat like that or if they do sneak up on me, I can handle them better.

Dendra, I really enjoy your Journal & your posts on the board. Love your cats, too. I lost my last kitty, she was 20, 2 years ago. I miss her & having a cat but right now is not a good time to get a cat, so I will just enjoy yours.

Hi Dendra - great to have a Geneen Roth fan on here!

Thanks for the comments, Jan. I too love our kitties. We currently have 3, one of whom is an old boy. All he does now is eat and sleep. When he was a kitten, he was oh, so, active.

As to hunger, it is so complex, and in my opinion not that well understood by some of these diet doctors/nutritionalists. And trying to sort it all out seems even more complex. That said, I am not striving for perfection, I am striving to have a functional, working relationship with true physical hunger. I'll never figure it all out, and sometimes I'll get it wrong, but as long as what I do works for me in the long run, that will be fine.

I've figured out how to recognized true physical hunger. Sometimes when I think I am hungry, I do the check-list for physical hunger (in my belly - a definite physical feeling) and if that is not there, what I am feeling is some other sort of 'hunger' sensation. For me that's usually avoidance of some sort, or boredom issues. For me it's not 'toxic withdrawal' or some-such.

Sometimes true physical hunger can be stimulated in the body by hearing about, or reading or seeing or smelling food. That's why I stopped looking at cooking shows/demos or even pictures or plates of food I don't want to eat a long time ago. It's also why some grocery stores vent their cooking smells onto the front walkways - to get people to think they want to eat something.

Primitive man, or poor people in underdeveloped countries, did not have many food choices much less the over-abundance of foods we have today in the west. While in some respects we are much luckier because of that, it also can make it more difficult if there are weight or health issues. Unlike most of our ancestors who often were looking for anything edible so they could eat more, we are faced with the novel situation in all human history of striving to eat less. Prior to the last century, there is no precedence.

Yep. I read my first GR book in the mid 80's. I remember waiting for her second book to be published.

I haven't read her last one yet. I should do that. The last one I read was a long time ago - Appetites. It wasn't about food/eating, but life perspective.

I don't think she gets everything right, but she put me on the right path re food, eating, and myself. She, and others in the same vein, are why I'll never be 100% compliant on this way of eating.
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Non-compliant Dendra meets a dyed-in-the-wool vegan....

"Women Food and God", for me, is her deepest book yet. I have highlighted many passages there which are helpful to me. I need to go back and reread it.

I did see her on Oprah this past year, and recently read some reviews of the book. I was relieved to read it wasn't religiously oriented, which I am not. That would have been a surprise considering her other books, but you never know. I know my library has it. Perhaps it would be fun to have a thread someplace here on the book.

What I did with some of her older books was to read pertinent passages onto audio tapes and then play them as I was doing work around the house. In fact, when I got my very first computer many years ago, the first search I did was for 'Geneen Roth' on dial-up. Didn't find much besides a bare-bones website at the time.

It's been my impression that she finally got the 'feeling connection' to eating disorders and other addictions/compulsions. In part due to her and other sources, I have read many other books on the subject of recovery, etc. And it all fits together so nicely to make sense of it all.

I've been mostly keeping up with my food journal and am finding it very helpful. I'm not being judgemental, just observing what and how I'm eating. I'm striving to reach a higher level of hunger before eating and am having moderate success with that. And also eating 'better' as in more veggies. And fewer snacks.

Wed. I have 2 holiday events to go to. If I'm going to crash and burn, it will be then.
I don't think I will however. I'm feeling more and more comfortable eating this way, as in it's becoming second nature to me. I don't feel deprived nor over hungry, and my patterns of cooking/eating are more in a rhythm.

I'm having a good day today. Still journaling and still learning from that. I don't count calories, or measure very much, or total anything, or anything like that, but I do think I am eating less. There are fewer words on the page anyway.

One of the intersting things about writing everything down and not being judgemental about it, is that I know when I eat something 'off program' I'll have to write it down, and I don't really want to do that. So I avoid it instead. It's as if the words being on the page bear silent witness, yet no one other than me will ever be interested enough to look at my food journal. I guess this is part of personal accountability.

Went to a luncheon potluck. Thought I would do better... I crashed and burned. Oh well.

"Tomorrow is another day"

And that means today.

I went to a second potluck last night. It was sobering. People in my age range. Not junk-food eaters, but still SAD eaters - meat, refined starches, salt, sweets, booze, coffee, and salads and veggies.

What was most notable was the bad health of so many of the people there. Shocking, scary, sad, and eye-opening. It was, as they say, 'a moment'.

I can't control everything in terms of creating better long-term health for myself, but I can do a lot, especially pertaining to eating a healthy diet.

And that is the plan.

Today was a very good day. I ate quite a bit, and it was all good stuff. Salad with avocado, lima bean soup with veggies, and a few almonds. And hot cocoa with almond milk.

After almost 2 months of experimentation, I've decided to go in the direction of less starch again. I have found that eating wholesome grains and potatoes have basically stopped my weight loss when before I was losing about 2 pounds/week without them. They also seem to make me hungrier.

I've always loved starches and hoped it would work for me, but it doesn't seem to. I'm hoping that after the weight is lost, that I can add moderate amounts again. After seeing all my physically infirm friends last night, I want to get back to losing weight and make some progress the next few months.

When Jan 1 arrives, I don't want to hit the ground running, I want to be rounding the next curve.

Am having a very good day. Mainly steamed veggies for breakfast, and a nice cuppa prime almond milk cocoa. A nice bowl of ham-flavored veggie/bean soup for lunch, plus a salad.

Best of all I'm not feeling hungry or wanting to eat all the time. It's been over 4 hours since I ate last, and in that time I just haven't wanted to eat. At all.

It's not much of a test - just a day or two- but this reminds me of the first couple months when I also wasn't eating starches, never felt hungry or deprived, and the weight was just melting off. I want that again.

This just could be coincidence, or something, but it's definitely worth further testing.

Today was annual 'cookie bake day' with a good friend and her now college age daughters. We've been doing this for years, and while work, is one of the holiday events I enjoy the most. Not for the cookies (which are good) but for the good fun and comraderie.

I didn't want to, but I figured I'd end up eating some of them. I did, but not nearly as many as most other years. Due to schedules, we started at about noon today. I had decided to eat before I went to dull my appetite, so I ate a lettuce salad with ample avocado. It was good.

As a result, I was able to not taste a cookie or dough for several hours. I waited as long as I could since I knew once I tasted, I would want more. In the end I ate about 6 of them including one small lump of raw dough. That probably sounds like a lot for a tiny eater, but for me that was a great outcome.

As I sit here, I am very hungry. It's been about 4-5? hours since I've eaten anything. I think I will reheat some nice bean soup.

And I have no intention of getting on the scale in the morning.

Today has been a very pleasant, peaceful day. No obligations at all - such a nice change from the usual pre-Christmas madness.

Food/eating has also been very good today. Mainly veggies and salad and bean soup.

I doubt I'll lose anything in Dec, but I really am thinking I'll make it to Jan 1 without gaining any holiday weight. That might be a first-ever.