Is choline vital? Should I not worry about it?

Earthlings · **Joined:** Sun Nov 27, 2011 4:35 am **Posts:** 3

Is choline vital? How can I get extra Choline?

I currently have written this diet up on cron-o-meter.com:

7 Glasses of Water
20 Bananas
1 Orange
1 Apple

140g of Potatoes steamed
2 Tbsp Dried Basil
6 Tbsp Dried Oregano

415g of Haricot/Navy Beans cooked
6 Tbsp Ground Paprika

2 Tbsp Tahini
2 Tbsp Ground Flaxseed
2 Tbsp Hemp Seed Powder
1 Brazil Nut
15-30mins of Sun
A pinch of Kelp

I know about possible needing too supplement vitamin B12 or eating Fortified Nutritional Yeast. I am not to worried about this at the minute as I have supplement.

I am however finding it difficult too get choline. I don't think I could eat more then 20 banana's. And I know I could not afford much more. Plus then some minerals go over the limit. I don't want to do that either really. I just wish to get my choline too 100%.

I added 1.5 cups of steamed Chard. But magnesium shot up. I don't really want it over 9mg as I heard it causes impotence. But maybe that's only supplements... would it be fine to eat more then the RDL of minerals like: Potassium, Magnesium or Manganese.

Is choline really important?

Could anyone give me a diet that gets all minerals and vitamins up too 100%. Or a few different variations. I am not really a fan of greens but I like herbs, mixed in to mashed potato.

On cron-o-meter I used:
140g of Potatoes boiled with skin,
Haricot/Navy Beans cooked = Baked Beans cooked
18 tsp Dried Oregano = 6 Tbsp Dried Oregano

afreespirit · **Joined:** Fri Feb 26, 2010 10:13 pm **Posts:** 1395

Welcome, Earthlings! Our resident dietician, JeffN, does not recommend that we focus on any one nutrient such as choline. For "a diet that gets all minerals and vitamins up too 100%", here you go :-D

:

viewtopic.php?t=10519

Quote:

Greetings Everyone,

As I watched the stock market crashing this morning, I was spending one of those rare days in the kitchen and thinking about my list of "Healthy Packaged Foods" and my "Basic Recipes" that I have posted and thinking about something new to write about. So, I decided to see how much I could simplify this program while reducing the cost and optimizing the nutritional value of it.

The Simplicity

Lunch

1 28 oz Can Whole Tomatoes (no salt added)
1 16 oz Bag Mixed Frozen Vegetables
4 oz Frozen Chopped Collard Greens
1/2 Large Bag Success Instant Brown Rice

This took about 10 minutes to make, only because the rice takes 10 minutes to make. I put the tomatoes and the veggies in a pot and as soon as the rice was done, i added it.

I then made this again for dinner.

Dinner

1 28 oz Can Whole Tomatoes (no salt added)
1 16 oz Bag Mixed Frozen Vegetables
4 oz Frozen Chopped Collard Greens
1/2 Large Bag Success Instant Brown Rice

Of course, I could have made a double bath at once.

Time involved to cook and prepare is 10-20 minutes maximum. If I cooked one batch for the day, the total cooking and prep time is 10 minutes.

If you wanted, you could add whatever spices and/or seasonings you prefer. I added a little Mrs Dash, Table Blend.

Satiety

I could barely finish the amount that each batch made for each meal. So, I ate 2 large bowls from each batch for each meal and had about 1-1.5 large bowls left over from each batch to have as a snack in between meals. For those who like 3 meals, that is the same as 3 large meals.

It is an enormous amount of food.

The Affordability

I get the Tomatoes 2 for $3.00
I get the Frozen Veggies for about $.80 for a pound bag, so 2.5 lbs total is around $2.00
I pay around $3 for the larger box of Success Instant Brown Rice which contains 4 bags so 1 bag is .75 cents

Total for the day, $5.75

I am going to recheck the pricing later today and also price it at Costco and I am thinking this will even go lower. I will even price it with buying regular brown rice as one could cook up a weeks worth at once and just have it available during the week.

The Nutritional Value
(From The CRON-O-Meter)

The percentages (%) are of the RDA/DRI

General
Calories 1573
Protein / 59.4 g / 108%
Carbs /329.1 g
Fiber /71.5 g
Fat /9.6 g

Without Flax/With Flax
Protein 13%/(13)
Carbohydraye 82%/(81%)
Fat 5% / (7%)

Vitamins
Vitamin A | 65584.7 IU / 2186%
Folate | 490.2 µg / 123%
B1 (Thiamine) | 2.0 mg / 167%
B2 (Riboflavin) | 2.3 mg / 180%
B3 (Niacin) | 29.2 mg / 182%
B5 (Pantothenic Acid)| 5.1 mg/ 103%
B6 (Pyridoxine) | 3.5 mg / 271%
Vitamin C | 235.8 mg / 262%
Vitamin E | 17.2 mg / 114%
Vitamin K | 1671.0 µg / 1393%

Minerals
Calcium | 1247.5 mg / 125%
Copper | 2.5 mg / 282%
Iron | 27.6 mg / 345%
Magnesium | 687.9 mg / 164%
Manganese | 11.4 mg / 494%
Phosphorus | 1297.4 mg / 185%
Potassium | 5294.0 mg / 113%
Selenium | 65.0 µg / 118%
Sodium | 609.6 mg 122%
Zinc | 10.8 mg / 98%

Lipids
Saturated | 1.7 g
Omega-3 | 0.6 g /(1.7)
Omega-6 | 3.2 g /(3.5)
Cholesterol | 0.0 mg

While the Omega 3 may seem low, it is over the estimated minimal need. However, just adding in 2 tsp's of ground flaxseed would raise the omega 3 to 1.7 and the omega 6 to 3.5. The omega 3 would then pass the AI set by the NAS and the ratio of onega 6 to omega 3 would be a 2 to 1. if you add 3 tsps, the omega 3 would be 2.2, which would now surpass the recommend amount set by the NIH, the Omega 6 would 3.6 and the ratios still under 2 to 1. The cost to do this would be pennies.

The calories are 1573, and 1613 with the Flax. If you wanted, you could add in a piece or two of fruit which would raise the calories about 60 calories for each serving.

The only remaining issue would be Vit D and Vit B12, which we have thoroughly covered in this forum.

For Those Who Are Not Perfect

I ran the numbers again using un-enriched instant white rice.

General
Energy | 1497.0 kcal
Protein | 57.3 g 104%
Carbs | 316.4 g
Fiber | 64.5 g
Fat | 6.0 g

Vitamins
Vitamin A | 62481.6 IU 2083%
Folate | 460.5 µg 115%
B1 (Thiamine) | 1.8 mg 148%
B2 (Riboflavin) | 2.2 mg 173%
B3 (Niacin) | 31.0 mg 194%
B5 (Pantothenic Acid)| 5.0 mg 99%
B6 (Pyridoxine) | 3.4 mg 260%
Vitamin C | 228.6 mg 254%
Vitamin E | 16.7 mg 111%
Vitamin K | 1499.3 µg 1249%

Minerals
Calcium | 1222.3 mg 122%
Copper | 2.3 mg 252%
Iron | 26.0 mg 325%
Magnesium | 470.9 mg 112%
Manganese | 7.6 mg 329%
Phosphorus | 1065.2 mg 152%
Potassium | 5240.1 mg 111%
Selenium | 51.3 µg 93%
Sodium | 576.3 mg 115%
Zinc | 8.8 mg 80%

Lipids
Saturated | 1.0 g
Omega-3 | 0.5 g
Omega-6 | 1.7 g
Cholesterol | 0.0 mg

The only issues now is the zinc, which we covered in another forum and could easily be met with some minor adjustments. However, I am not recommending white rice, just using it as an example to show the difference between the two.

Not bad!

See?

Following this program can be a real SNAP!

In Health
Jeff

PS here is the Amino Acid profile

First the RDA for adults 19 and over

14 mg/kg/d of histidine
19 mg/kg/d of isoleucine
42 mg/kg/d of leucine
38 mg/kg/d of lysine
19 mg/kg/d of methionine + cysteine
33 mg/kg/d of phenylalanine + tyrosine
20 mg/kg/d of threonine
5 mg/kg/d of tryptophan
24 mg/kg/d of valine

Which for 70 kg Adult is

.98 gms of histidine
1.33 gms of isoleucine
2.94 gms of leucine
2.66 gms of lysine
1.33 gms of methionine + cysteine
2.31 gms of phenylalanine + tyrosine
1.4 gms of threonine
.350 gms of tryptophan
1.68 gms of valine

The above diet surpasses everyone of these numbers as follows

1.4 gms of histidine
2.5 gms of isoleucine
3.8 gms of leucine
2.9 gms of lysine
1.5 gms of methionine + cysteine
4.2 gms of phenylalanine + tyrosine
2.5 gms of threonine
.7 gms of tryptophan
2.8 gms of valine

Last edited by JeffN on Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:49 am, edited 4 times in total.

afreespirit · **Joined:** Fri Feb 26, 2010 10:13 pm **Posts:** 1395

You can also do a search here for choline like I did and turn up more threads like these:

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=15774&hilit=choline

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=14910

HealthyMe2010 · **Joined:** Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:26 am **Posts:** 958

May I ask why you're eating so many bananas? Are you moving to or coming off a raw food diet? Basing your calories on fruit will result in deficiences unless you eat many thousands of calories worth, but why would you want to.

Try eating potatoes instead of bananas, they offer at least twice the amount of choline and more of other nutrients. Fruits in general are a poor choice for choline, but don't worry about individual nutrients and eat a variety of food (rather than load up on bananas).

Good luck!

Earthlings · **Joined:** Sun Nov 27, 2011 4:35 am **Posts:** 3

@ealthyMe2010

Potatoes don't offer half the vitamins banana's do. And a potato fills me up really fast. I can't eat much. So to me that means it's heavy and a night food for me personally. If you go on to cron-o-meter.com you can add food to a list and see if you are getting everything you need. You will understand why if you go their I have banana's. They have starch in too. They are better then potato's and not as filling. Easy to carry with you. I actually changed it to 14 now. I have read lots of peoples diets and come to the conclusion it depends what you cook not cooking that is bad. Cooking actually makes some foods easier to digest... and some toxic. I wanted too see if I was right and possible transition in to 100% raw later. But right now am trying to get a cheap diet, that I enjoy not that I know I wont eat... I tried only putting greens in the fridge I found I ended up actually starving myself before eating not on purpose... just I never was in the mood for them. So I decided best idea is to get a diet I can do and will do most days as a base line then go from their.

Oh and banana's are cheap about a $1 for a KG, here. So that's another reason why.

This is what I have now:

7 Glasses of Water
14 Bananas
1 Orange
1 Apple

140g of Potatoes steamed
3 Tbsp Dried Thyme
6 Tbsp Dried Oregano

415g of Haricot/Navy Beans cooked
5 Tbsp Ground Paprika

2 Tbsp Tahini
2 Tbsp Ground Flaxseed
1 Brazil Nut
15-30mins of Sun
A pinch of Kelp

@afreespirit: I don't personally like greens much I did state this. I want foods with a taste I like with what I need. I read those links and to be honest I though it was a someone trying to sell supplements.

I just would like a few different foods high in Choline, rather then having to eat 4 cups of cauliflower which sounds like two heads of cauliflower a day.

I don't like to do frozen foods. I don't really like to be doing caned stuff either but unfortunately money is restricting. So right now I let organic beans slide. Plus I am just trying to find a diet that am sure kids could eat too. :-)

HealthyMe2010 · **Joined:** Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:26 am **Posts:** 958

Earthlings wrote:

@ealthyMe2010

Potatoes don't offer half the vitamins banana's do. And a potato fills me up really fast. I can't eat much. So to me that means it's heavy and a night food for me personally. If you go on to cron-o-meter.com you can add food to a list and see if you are getting everything you need. You will understand why if you go their I have banana's.

I've done the research and double-checked with cron-o-meter - potatoes (white, baked with skin) offer not only as many vitamins, but more minerals as well.

The fact that potatoes are filling is a positive for most people, but I can understand why they may not be a benefit for you.

In my own personal experience with eating that many bananas, I developed several dental issues and I always felt hungry after an hour or so, since they are digested so quickly. They also made me very spacey, but I would expect any sugar load like that to do the same.

FYI: Potatoes are $0.44 / kg when you buy a 10lb bag and WAY less if you buy 50lbs. I'm near Toronto, Ontario.

Good luck. I believe the solution is to eat a more varied diet and not rely on one food for calories.

Earthlings · **Joined:** Sun Nov 27, 2011 4:35 am **Posts:** 3

I could not eat much potatoes a day. I don't really love potatoes. I could eat a small amount a day, but that's it. I prefer banana's as I can shove them in a smoothly or carry a few and eat them like a chocolate bar. It's easier, no cooking no messing just eat them.

I put 2000kg in of potatoes and 2000kg of banana and compared the two. I agree potatoes are better then banana's for vitamins but you would need to eat a lot and well... it's easier to get banana's no messing about. Simple and it's very close health wise, not much in it.

What foods are high in choline?

Steelhead · **Joined:** Sun Jul 06, 2008 10:01 am **Posts:** 298

Earthlings wrote:

Is choline vital? How can I get extra Choline?

[snip]

I am however finding it difficult too get choline. [snip] I just wish to get my choline too 100%.

[snip]

Is choline really important?

First, Cron-o-meter tells you that there is not DV for choline. An Adequate Intake has recently been set at 550 and 425 mg/day for male and female adults, respectively. For strict vegetarians, good plant sources include vegetables, legumes, nuts, seeds, and wheat germ.

Choline functions as a precursor for lecithin, a phospholipid in cell membranes. Choline is also involved in the formation of acetylcholine, an important neurotransmitter in the central nervous system.

As choline is found in most foods as part of cell membranes, choline deficiency is very rare. Since choline deficiency is very rare, the effects of choline supplementation on health status has received little research attention.

Excessive choline intake may lead to a fish body odor, gastrointestinal distress, vomiting, and low blood pressure.

Prudent recommendations.

"Given the evidence that choline deficiency states are very rare, and that supplementation does not appear to enhance health or exercise performance, choline supplementation is not recommended. A balanced diet will provide adequate choline." Ninth Ed., Nutrition for Health, Fitness, & Sport.

Cron-o-meter does not list every nutrient in every food -- it uses government tables (so lots of minerals, etc., may be in foods but cron-o-meter omits these). Many times I have to research out each food to add in the missing nutrients from Cron-o-meter (and I edit and create my version of the food for future use using the cron-o-meter numbers plus the numbers for those missing from cron-o-meter). Anecdotally, every plant-based whole food combination I have used always have more than the minimum recommended amounts of vitamins and minerals -- which btw are minimums not necessarily applicable to humans who eat a diverse, whole plant, low fat, high fiber, based diet; these minimums are for people who are junk-food vegans, or just people who eat lots of the same food, or processed foods, or the SAD. So why use cron-o-meter? (If you are on a severe calorie restricted diet, then it is important to pay attention to details and have a miserable life in the process; if you are eating all you want as we do then cron-o-meter is simply a waste of time and effort (and a manifestation of an unhealthy obsession with diet and food).)

The problem with using cron-o-meter is that it can make a person obsessive-compulsive over food and forcing a person to eat more than they should or need to. It is best to ignore cron-o-meter and its ilk and just eat healthfully. When I was growing up on the farm, we didn't calculate how much protein, carbohydrates, fats, vitamins, or minerals, we were eating or drinking, and we didn't take supplements, and we were all healthy, muscular, and fit.

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