Dr. McDougall's Health & Medical Center
It is currently Thu May 23, 2013 2:04 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 46 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Aug. McD Support for Antitheists, Atheists, & Evolutionists
PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 3:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 3:13 pm
Posts: 366
Location: Canada
Gramma Jackie wrote:
Also, since this is a revolutionary evolutionary type thread I would just like to say that although there might be a case made for eating meat based upon the fact that both our cousins, the Neanderthals and our direct ancestors, the Cro-Magnon were hunters. But I personally think that gluten intolerance will someday be minimal. Why do I think this is a good thing, since our forbears ate meat? [/i]."


Yes, Gramma Jackie, for certain our ancestral cousins the Neanderthals and Cro-Magnon were hunters and ate meat, it doesn't necessarily mean that they ate a lot of meat.

Since they had to expend so much energy partaking in a hunt, they probably didn't eat meat that often, but rather shared it with the group, and subsisted on plant materials all the other times.

I read somewhere and it makes total sense to me that the reason we think our ancestors ate so much meat is because of all the animal bones that were excavated where our ancestors hung out. HOwever, that's just because the bones don't decompose like plant matter, so that is what they find. Our ancestors still eat a large amount of plants, even if the archeologists don't find the traces, as they decomposed long ago.

They were likely omnivores more so than carnivores.

We are also genetically similar to the chimpanzee, who eats mainly plants along with a large amount of insects and a small amount of meat.

What do you think?

Cheers,
Yvie

_________________
I want to spend the last half of my life as healthy and vibrant as possible. Eating well and exercising are instrumental to having a good life. Thanks for the inspiration!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Aug. McD Support for Antitheists, Atheists, & Evolutionists
PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 4:18 pm 
Well there is a lot of truth to what you say Yvie, and it is certainly true of the few hunter-gatherers that remain today. However anthropologists are pretty sure that Neanderthals were 99% meat eaters because of how far north they lived during the last major ice age. The game they killed ate grass which was the main vegetation in northern Europe then. While the Neanderthals did survive for over 200,000 years, they are not with us today for whatever reason. It was the omnivorous modern humans (homo-sapiens) who survived (although the recent genome project has shown many people today have Neanderthal genes in them). I personally am of the view that we need to move away from the past in regards to what we eat because of our present situation with processed foods, factory farmed beef, pork and poultry, ocean and river pollution, and the lack of sustainability of meat-eating. Meat eating may or may not have given us big brains, but we need to use those brains in order to survive in the future.


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Aug. McD Support for Antitheists, Atheists, & Evolutionists
PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:33 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 6:53 am
Posts: 196
Location: Minnesota
Hey Letha,

I made the banana blueberry bread and in a word... awesome. Two words? Gooey awesomeness. :)

I took pics and if I figure out how to post them here, I'll do it.

Now, I know what I'm having for breakfast!

Have a wonderful day,

Beth :)

_________________
http://PlantBasedChefs.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Aug. McD Support for Antitheists, Atheists, & Evolutionists
PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:04 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:07 pm
Posts: 1062
bethannerickson wrote:
Hey Letha,

I made the banana blueberry bread and in a word... awesome. Two words? Gooey awesomeness. :)

I took pics and if I figure out how to post them here, I'll do it.

Now, I know what I'm having for breakfast!

Have a wonderful day,

Beth :)


Yea, it's pretty fricking good. I'm glad you enjoyed it. :)
Letha

_________________
Image
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Carl Sagan


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Aug. McD Support for Antitheists, Atheists, & Evolutionists
PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:34 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:07 pm
Posts: 1062
Good morning friends. This morning I’m having fun with my new melon baller. I’ve never used one before. This photo was shot last night but I carved up another cantaloupe this morning so I could have melon balls for breakfast. Yum!

Image

Later today I’m going to try jicama for the first time. If you’re lucky I’ll post photos of that tomorrow. :nod:

One more thing. I wanted to share a good link for a blog called The Friendly Atheist.

http://friendlyatheist.com/

Today’s topic = vacation bible camp. Funny stuff.


From Chapter 4 ‘The Decent of Man’ by Charles Darwin

“In the case of the lower animals it seems much more appropriate to speak of their social instincts, as having been developed for the general good rather than for the general happiness of the species. The term, general good, may be defined as the rearing of the greatest number of individuals in full vigour and health, with all their faculties perfect, under the conditions to which they are subjected. As the social instincts both of man and the lower animals have no doubt been developed by nearly the same steps, it would be advisable, if found practicable, to use the same definition in both cases, and to take as the standard of morality, the general good or welfare of the community, rather than the general happiness; but this definition would perhaps require some limitation on account of political ethics.

When a man risks his life to save that of a fellow-creature, it seems also more correct to say that he acts for the general good, rather than for the general happiness of mankind. No doubt the welfare and the happiness of the individual usually coincide; and a contented, happy tribe will flourish better than one that is discontented and unhappy. We have seen that even at an early period in the history of man, the expressed wishes of the community will have naturally influenced to a large extent the conduct of each member; and as all wish for happiness, the "greatest happiness principle" will have become a most important secondary guide and object; the social instinct, however, together with sympathy (which leads to our regarding the approbation and disapprobation of others), having served as the primary impulse and guide. Thus the reproach is removed of laying the foundation of the noblest part of our nature in the base principle of selfishness; unless, indeed, the satisfaction which every animal feels, when it follows its proper instincts, and the dissatisfaction felt when prevented, be called selfish.

The wishes and opinions of the members of the same community, expressed at first orally, but later by writing also, either form the sole guides of our conduct, or greatly reinforce the social instincts; such opinions, however, have sometimes a tendency directly opposed to these instincts. This latter fact is well exemplified by the Law of Honour, that is, the law of the opinion of our equals, and not of all our countrymen. The breach of this law, even when the breach is known to be strictly accordant with true morality, has caused many a man more agony than a real crime. We recognise the same influence in the burning sense of shame which most of us have felt, even after the interval of years, when calling to mind some accidental breach of a trifling, though fixed, rule of etiquette. The judgment of the community will generally be guided by some rude experience of what is best in the long run for all the members; but this judgment will not rarely err from ignorance and weak powers of reasoning. Hence the strangest customs and superstitions, in complete opposition to the true welfare and happiness of mankind, have become all-powerful throughout the world. We see this in the horror felt by a Hindoo who breaks his caste, and in many other such cases. It would be difficult to distinguish between the remorse felt by a Hindoo who has yielded to the temptation of eating unclean food, from that felt after committing a theft; but the former would probably be the more severe.

How so many absurd rules of conduct, as well as so many absurd religious beliefs, have originated, we do not know; nor how it is that they have become, in all quarters of the world, so deeply impressed on the mind of men; but it is worthy of remark that a belief constantly inculcated during the early years of life, whilst the brain is impressible, appears to acquire almost the nature of an instinct; and the very essence of an instinct is that it is followed independently of reason. Neither can we say why certain admirable virtues, such as the love of truth, are much more highly appreciated by some savage tribes than by others;* nor, again, why similar differences prevail even amongst highly civilised nations. Knowing how firmly fixed many strange customs and superstitions have become, we need feel no surprise that the self-regarding virtues, supported as they are by reason, should now appear to us so natural as to be thought innate, although they were not valued by man in his early condition.

* Good instances are given by Mr. Wallace in Scientific Opinion, Sept. 15, 1869; and more fully in his Contributions to the Theory of Natural Selection, 1870, p. 353.

Not withstanding many sources of doubt, man can generally and readily distinguish between the higher and lower moral rules. The higher are founded on the social instincts, and relate to the welfare of others. They are supported by the approbation of our fellow-men and by reason. The lower rules, though some of them when implying self-sacrifice hardly deserve to be called lower, relate chiefly to self, and arise from public opinion, matured by experience and cultivation; for they are not practised by rude tribes.

As man advances in civilisation, and small tribes are united into larger communities, the simplest reason would tell each individual that he ought to extend his social instincts and sympathies to all the members of the same nation, though personally unknown to him. This point being once reached, there is only an artificial barrier to prevent his sympathies extending to the men of all nations and races. If, indeed, such men are separated from him by great differences in appearance or habits, experience unfortunately shews us how long it is, before we look at them as our fellow-creatures. Sympathy beyond the confines of man, that is, humanity to the lower animals, seems to be one of the latest moral acquisitions. It is apparently unfelt by savages, except towards their pets. How little the old Romans knew of it is shewn by their abhorrent gladiatorial exhibitions. The very idea of humanity, as far as I could observe, was new to most of the Gauchos of the Pampas. This virtue, one of the noblest with which man is endowed, seems to arise incidentally from our sympathies becoming more tender and more widely diffused, until they are extended to all sentient beings. As soon as this virtue is honoured and practised by some few men, it spreads through instruction and example to the young, and eventually becomes incorporated in public opinion.”

_________________
Image
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Carl Sagan


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Aug. McD Support for Antitheists, Atheists, & Evolutionists
PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:06 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:07 pm
Posts: 1062
I’ve been amusing myself this morning reading online about the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
So funny I just had to change my avatar again.
Letha

http://www.venganza.org/

_________________
Image
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Carl Sagan


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Aug. McD Support for Antitheists, Atheists, & Evolutionists
PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:19 pm 
Gee Letha, I kinda liked your evolving fish avatar. It's a personal favorite of mine.

Anyway, in reference to my post about continuing evolution of humans, I found this interesting article which seems to support what I said about humans evolving after the beginning of the neolithic period and the advent of agriculture:

http://www.livescience.com/health/06030 ... volve.html


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Aug. McD Support for Antitheists, Atheists, & Evolutionists
PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:48 am 
"Religion is something left over from the infancy of our intelligence, it will fade away as we adopt reason and science as our guidelines.”

Bertrand Russell


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Aug. McD Support for Antitheists, Atheists, & Evolutionists
PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:15 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:07 pm
Posts: 1062
Gramma Jackie wrote:
"Religion is something left over from the infancy of our intelligence, it will fade away as we adopt reason and science as our guidelines.”

Bertrand Russell

Hi Gramma Jackie,
I think it’s a mistake for progressives to view religion as if it were some kind of teenage phase that we’ll grow out of. Religious Christians have declared a cultural war. They are dedicated to the war and they have a great deal of influence, power and money. I think it’s in our best interests to take them seriously.

The evolving fish is pretty cool. Perhaps you can add it to your signature line. Thanks for posting the link.
Letha

_________________
Image
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Carl Sagan


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Aug. McD Support for Antitheists, Atheists, & Evolutionists
PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:54 am 
Letha.. wrote:
Gramma Jackie wrote:
"Religion is something left over from the infancy of our intelligence, it will fade away as we adopt reason and science as our guidelines.”

Bertrand Russell

Hi Gramma Jackie,
I think it’s a mistake for progressives to view religion as if it were some kind of teenage phase that we’ll grow out of. Religious Christians have declared a cultural war. They are dedicated to the war and they have a great deal of influence, power and money. I think it’s in our best interests to take them seriously.

The evolving fish is pretty cool. Perhaps you can add it to your signature line. Thanks for posting the link.
Letha


I think Bertrand Russell and I take the long term view, as opposed to say Richard Dawkins and Christopher HItchens. I am not a militant person, although I do call things how I see them. :-)

p.s. The reason I try not to be militant about this issue is because my family is divided right smack down the middle about religion. Our family consists mostly of Christian fundamentalists, with a confirmed atheist, a few agnostics and a couple of secular Jews plus a Jehovah's witness thrown in for good measure.


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Aug. McD Support for Antitheists, Atheists, & Evolutionists
PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 9:05 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:07 pm
Posts: 1062
Gramma Jackie wrote:
p.s. The reason I try not to be militant about this issue is because my family is divided right smack down the middle about religion. Our family consists mostly of Christian fundamentalists, with a confirmed atheist, a few agnostics and a couple of secular Jews plus a Jehovah's witness thrown in for good measure.


My observation is that conservatives tend to be more militant then progressives. In a war, cultural or otherwise, the militants have an advantage. In my opinion anyway.
Letha

_________________
Image
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Carl Sagan


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Aug. McD Support for Antitheists, Atheists, & Evolutionists
PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:38 am 
Letha.. wrote:

My observation is that conservatives tend to be more militant then progressives. In a war, cultural or otherwise, the militants have an advantage. In my opinion anyway.
Letha



Some are--esp. those in politics or the media.
I certainly believe in being outspoken when it comes to how science is taught in schools and even about my political leanings, however I choose my battles. I come from a very conservative fundamentalist evangelical background. My father-in-law was a Southern preacher. Everything was black and white for these people (literally). Diversity was not considered something good. I hated it and got out, but I didn't want my husband or myself to become just the flip side of that coin and I certainly didn't want to start preaching to others when I had felt so beleagered by all the sermons and by the "in-your-face" attitude of my relatives.


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Aug. McD Support for Antitheists, Atheists, & Evolutionists
PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:28 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:07 pm
Posts: 1062
Gramma Jackie wrote:
Some are--esp. those in politics or the media.
I certainly believe in being outspoken when it comes to how science is taught in schools and even about my political leanings, however I choose my battles. I come from a very conservative fundamentalist evangelical background. My father-in-law was a Southern preacher. Everything was black and white for these people (literally). Diversity was not considered something good. I hated it and got out, but I didn't want my husband or myself to become just the flip side of that coin and I certainly didn't want to start preaching to others when I had felt so beleagered by all the sermons and by the "in-your-face" attitude of my relatives.

A tolerance for diversity sets up an interesting paradigm. Those that seek a tolerance for diversity tend to have a high tolerance for those who are intolerant. However, the reverse is not true.

Being right won’t help you if you lose the war.
Letha

_________________
Image
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Carl Sagan


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Aug. McD Support for Antitheists, Atheists, & Evolutionists
PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:30 am
Posts: 2622
Letha.. wrote:
I’ve been amusing myself this morning reading online about the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
So funny I just had to change my avatar again.
Letha

http://www.venganza.org/


Ha! I remember reading about the Flying Spaghetti Monster years ago. Too funny! Have you ever read up on the Church of the SubGenius? If you've ever watched PeeWee's Playhouse you may have spotted a picture of 'Bob'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_the_SubGenius

Kate

_________________
This diet can save your life - it saved mine! Read my story at:
http://www.drmcdougall.com/stars/cathy_stewart.htm

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Aug. McD Support for Antitheists, Atheists, & Evolutionists
PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:58 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 10:13 pm
Posts: 1395
“Question with boldness even the existence of God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.” — Thomas Jefferson


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 46 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group