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Hi, am 70yo vegetarian/slim/exercise/good cholesterol etc. Have not been entirely vegan but perhaps 90%. 3 months ago because of an overdose of my thyroid meds (for low thyroid) I went hyPERthyroid resulting in atrial fibrillation and ER. Fortunately they saw the cause and treated me with beta blockers/aspirin and I was fine. I weaned off the meds 2 weeks later with cardiologist's permission. Last week I had a repeat episode. I was scared to go to the ER so I took one of the beta blockers/aspirin and waited and an hour later I was fine. I have an appt with cardio this week and currently still on the meds. I am so shattered, I cannot believe this has happened to me, everything I read online is horrifying and I am scared. Has anyone had this and doing ok? I have added taurine/l-carnitine to my regime which includes extra magnesium/CoQ10/E and frankly fish oil. I juice veggies every day. I am sticking to McDougal for this and other reasons. Thanks for any positive thoughts and advice. anneh

You have my sympathy, anneh. Unfortunately I do not know anything about your condition, but someone else may be along to reply. Meanwhile I would certainly encourage you to keep McDougalling, and stay in touch here on the board. You might see an endocrinologist about your thyroid. Take care.

Positive thoughts: I hope that it is just a matter of straightening out your thyroid medications. Good luck!

Has anyone had this and doing ok?


Yes, I have it and doing just fine. My initial trip to the ER resulted in the thyroid diagnosis, I was taken off thyroid and the episodes continued. A referral to a cardiologist resulted in a lengthy diagnostic process with A-fib being the conclusion.

After reading the China Study and Reverse and Prevent Heart Disease, and Dr. McDougall's online information, I'm now 18 months into 100% low-fat veganism. Everything has drastically improved since that point, overall health, weight, energy, more "good days" than bad ---- sorry for getting off topic and beating the McDougall/vegan drum---

Now, I'm doing great, am on Rythmol and Coumadin and no more episodes. In June my GP took over my cardiac care and I'm delighted with the outcome.

With a strong family history of serious heart issues, the onset of A-fib was of great concern, the diagnostic process was too detailed to relate here but the result is I've learned, been told and read that of all such heart issues, A-fib is the least life threatening. I'm told that many folks recognize it for what it is, annoying and scarey and live with it often without any pharmaceutical intervention. These are choices you and your cardiologist must make. Trust yourself and your instincts first, do your own research and let your doctor guide your care and treatment.

My cardiologist was a specialist within a speciality --- he said he was a "plumber" and sent me to an "electrician" for a while. My understanding is that A-fib is an electrical problem. The plumber would deal with the issue of blocked arteries and the like. A friend with this problem had an ablitation (sp?) [treating the circuitry issue] and is fine. She's A-OK. That was not the chosen path for my issue.

It sounds like you are a wise guardian of your health already. This too will be relegated to "just one of those things" and you will go on to rosey-cheeked years of abundant good health.

I wish you peace.

Not having caffene and consuming small amounts of nuts and ground flax seed may help arrythmia.

Thank you all for your kindness in responding to me. I appreciate all the input and recommendations anneh

I've been living with atrial fibrillation for about 15 yrs.

Taking propafenone and coumadin. I have been vegan for one year now.

Really starting to get serious about the low fat vegan McD lifestyle.

About ten years ago, I had an episode of "afib" (they called it tachycardia and arrhythmia) and went to an emergency room. I was given a drug through an IV. It returned the timing to the normal rate. I took a bus home.

On Monday, Dec. 20, 2010 I had an episode of rapid heart beat (about 135 beats or more) and irregular timing. I waited until Friday evening. I went to the emergency room of the nearest hospital, in Auburn. I stayed for two days for tests and observation.

I special ordered plain, whole food and got it, though with some discussion of what "fruit, vegetables, potatoes, no animal products, and no seeds (grains, beans, peas, nuts, etc.)" really means. As usual, always end with a specific order: "I want carrots, a baked potato, and a fruit plate. It's okay to give me that at every meal."

After the first meal, I had to double my order. I had cleaned the plates. The dietician was impressed. Most patients, she said, are too sick to eat. The dietician actually checks the returning plates to adjust the amounts for the next meal. She doubled mine.

Lab tests, including ultrasound, show I have afib. At 66, I have no thyroid, "heart protein," kidney, liver, blood, lung embolism, or other problems -- except a slightly enlarged heart and afib (emptying about 45% instead of the normal 65%).

At home, I am feeling better each day. I am back up to walking 1 hour per day so far (down from 2 hours before this episode), eating three meals at regular times (but in half the amount that I did before) and sleep well. I am mildly alarmed at the weight loss. I was only 125 lbs. at the hospital. (I am six feet tall, but very active normally.) One of the two daily BMs has been diarrhea. I assume that is the dinner and breakfast meals combined. Those are the two meals in which I take medication (Metoprol).

I have strictly followed my subset of the McDougall Program for six years. (See the second website address below my name at the bottom.) It has cured almost all of my inflammation problems. It didn't prevent this problem. (The McDougall Program doesn't guarantee everlasting life and perfect health.)

In the hospital I resisted most of the prescriptions that the heart ward automatically assigns to every patient (based on the general population): stool softener (I eat a high-fiber diet!), pain reliever (I have no pain!), antiacid (I have no acid reflux!). I did agree to take a minimal amount (12.5 mg, 2x daily) of Metoprol which apparently is a beta-blocker that suppresses heart rate. It works generally well. (I also found that deep breathing and concentrated relaxation help control the rate.)

I refused to take Coumadin (Warfarin) because the side-effects are potentially awful for some individuals. I am instead taking an 81 mg aspirin (which is the "baby" version I think) at lunch, as a blood "thinner" (actually, "anti-clotter"), to minimize the chance of stroke resulting from blood clots that come from incomplete emptying of the atria.

Thursday, Dec. 30, I am scheduled to see a primary care physician for the first time here in Kent, Wa. (I moved here a few months ago.) He then will, I hope, refer me to a cardiologist, if I can find one who will take a minimalist approach rather than an aggressive, pharmaceutical-sodden approach.

I welcome any tips. I have no fear of death. I have lived a full life and I have achieved all my main goals in life. What I fear is sliding down the miserable pharmaceutical spiral, getting worse and worse from taking drugs that compensate for drugs that compensate for other drugs.

The conflict I see is that drugs like Coumadin might reduce the chance of a stroke, but is the chance big enough to justify the side effects? I am not sure.

I have read Dr. McDougall's article on afib here: http://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2008nl/mar/fav5.htm

He does not completely oppose Coumadin, but he urges caution and a conservative approach.

I am not asking for medical advice. No one here can or should give that. I am asking for leads to alternatives. For example, I know that drinking chamomile tea has been soothing to me in the past, relaxing me and helping me sleep better. I haven't started drinking it again because I want to find out first if there might be reasons not to.

All suggestions welcome.

Burgess --- I share your aversion to the pharmaceutical intervention approach. Since I posted in July, I no longer take Warfarin or any blood thinner, aspirin, etc. I discussed with my GP that since my A-Fib did not seem to be severe and the Rythmol has kept me event free, I felt the risks of the Warfarin outweighed the potential benefit. He agreed, thank goodness.

It is scarey when your heart does the boogie-woogie in your chest, but not so much since I now know what it is. I wish you well on finding the right medical professional to help guide your treatment.

Have a wonderful 2011 through 2038 or more, totally without any further incidents but overrun with joy.

Velvet

Since my original post regarding the onset of my AF this March due to too much thyroid meds and repeat episode 3 months later I have made some changes. First I found out that being on the beta blocker is bad for my health and also my heart int he long run so I weaned off it. Plus after talking to a couple of people with AF who are NOT on a beta blocker but doing fine I realized they are not necessary in most cases (I am in excellent health with a good heart) so I will use the full dose beta blocker at the onset of any AF episodes which I did the last time and didn't have to go to the hospital as I converted within a few hours (yes I did take aspirin immediately). Re the aspirin, yes a baby aspirin every other day will thin the blood sufficiently, I am currently looking into either taking Nattokinase or Ginko as an alternative. I do take supplements (carnitine/alpha lipoic acid/taurine/E/CoQ1/C/garlic/fish oils/MAGNESIUM and most important Hawthorn herb. Am also under care of a well respected herbalist (I have studied herbs and know that they are our natural medicine) who has created an herbal blend that I take daily. I try to walk at least a mile or two daily. You can go to afibbers.net forum for more supplement info altho they have no knowledge about herbs. Hawthorn strengthens the heart and has no side effects http://www.christopherhobbs.com/website ... rn_01.html. I am saddened to see the kind of dangerous, harmful drugs alot of these people are put on by cardiologists
Btw now 6 months since last episode.
anneh

Burgess, which came first, the diarrhea or the atrial fibrillation? The reason I ask is that sometimes diarrhea can mess with the potassium in the body and cause heart problems.



They sure know their population!



Here is an article about the risk of stroke with atrial fibrillation:

http://heartdisease.about.com/library/w ... 80601a.htm

1. Somnolent, thank you for the link to the CHADS scoring system. That is very clear and helpful. I am in the zero category. That means a very low risk of stroke. That leads me to question even more any claim I might hear about the imperative need for aggressive anticoagulant drugs. I will continue to take an aspirin per day until a physician convinces me to do something different.

2. The diarrhea followed the drug Metoprolol. (I said "One of the two daily BMs has been diarrhea. I assume that is the dinner and breakfast meals combined. Those are the two meals in which I take medication (Metoprol).")

The only times I have had diarrhea in the last few years was when I was eating avocados daily. I call that Avocado Roulette. It isn't worth the gamble. To try to gain weight I will turn to olives as my first step.

GOOD NEWS. Today is a week after I left the hospital. This past week has given me a chance to:
- Observe my response to the medication for afib, Metoprolol.
- Observe changes in my condition.
- Set up a connection to a primary care physician.
- Return to a regular schedule of sleeping, eating, working, and exercising.
- Begin regularly drinking chamomile (1 or 2 tea bags/day), which does seem to have a relaxing effect.

Other news is mostly good:
- My appetite has returned to its former, high level. (I am careful now, however, not to eat too much, as I suspect that the two episodes of afib I have experienced in the last 10 years were both triggered by a belly too full, combined with bending over, e.g., to tie a shoelace.) I am adding black olives and half an avocado to each meal. (My weight dropped to 120 lbs, at six feet!) I am also adding 1/2 probiotic tablet at some meals.
- The diarrhea seems to be going away, but it is too early to say I am back on a predictable BM schedule (which is very important to me as I am a walker and I have had trouble retaining, ever since I had colitis six or more years ago).
- I am exercising at near my usual rate: 2 hours/day of walking plus a daily light weight lifting routine.
- I am sleeping well, waking with little or no noticeable heart irregularity and no accelerated heart rate. (Both tend to appear when I eat breakfast, but not at scary rates.)
- I am learning that three factors reduce the chances of my heart rate going up: frequent deep-breathing, an erect posture, avoiding any connection to problems that I can't control; e.g., I have stopped reading the news.

BAD NEWS. The one piece of bad news is that my new primary care physician, Dr. C, did not seem interested in working with me on this afib problem. He said he usually relies on the patient's cardiologist to make suggestions. I suspect there is a fear of liability here, as well as an honest recognition that he lacks the specialized expertise. Also bad news was the fact that Dr. C did not seem sympathetic to my desire to take a gradual, not an aggressive approach.

PLAN. Tentatively, my plan is to continue monitoring my progress. If the afib continues to diminish as a presence in my life, I may try weaning myself from the Metoprolol, while still taking one aspirin/day. I will not seek out a cardiologist. I will simply live with the occasional discomfort of chronic, but low level afib. I will accept the risk of stroke and death. (With the alternative, the Coumadin route, there is also risk of intestinal problems, bleeding to death, as well as the certainty of frequent doctor visits to adjust medication and occasional need, e.g. with a dentist, of needing to stop and start the medication.)

If the afib does not diminish, or if it becomes worse, I will search for a suitable cardiologist. My primary care physician gave me a list of seven cardiologists in my general area. Three have offices together, about ten miles away, which is close enough to taxi to, if need be. I will try to select a cardiologist who is willing to work with me in a minimal, gradual approach -- if I can find such a person. If I can't find such a doctor, then I will take a chance on standard treatment (Metoprolol + Coumadin + possibility of cardioversion).

This is the best approach I can devise until I have more information.

glad to hear you are feeling better. Re the cardiologist its not a bad idea to find one now just to get checked occasionally. My understand is that some people can have"silent AF" which is what happened to a relative of mine although it was apparent to her that something was wrong. Btw it was a cardio who put me on the aspirin, not all of them recommend the warfarin route. I also researched and found that 40mg aspirin thins the blood so that is why I take a baby aspirin (81mgs) every other day. I was on the beta blocker but in my case it slowed me down too much plus I didn't like the idea of using it long term and then found out that it can be used as a means to convert back into sinus rhythm so thought I would just use it that way and have gone 6 months without an episode. Quite honestly it seems so many things can trigger it. However alot of people do seem to have the vagal type which is triggered by food/digestion. Mine was not but was told to avoid stress. However have had horribly stressful events happen and thank God no AF occurred which is strange. I do take extra relaxing herbs at those times and try to do breathwork. anneh[quote="Burgess"]GOOD NEWS.

If the afib does not diminish, or if it becomes worse, I will search for a suitable cardiologist. My primary care physician gave me a list of seven cardiologists in my general area. Three have offices together, about ten miles away, which is close enough to taxi to, if need be. I will try to select a cardiologist who is willing to work with me in a minimal, gradual approach -- if I can find such a person. If I can't find such a doctor, then I will take a chance on standard treatment (Metoprolol + Coumadin + possibility of cardioversion).