Discussion Board

Jeff, or anyone....

Do we have a MWL pancake recipe? Something with all whole grains that are intact such as oatmeal???? Is it possible?

I miss pancakes bad! LOL

Rich

there is also an oatmeal waffle/pancake recipe on pcrm courtesy of dr. neal barnard:
2 cups of rolled large flake oats,
2 cups of water
1 banana
cinnamon
blueberries(optional)
mix in a blender then drop batter on griddle until bubbling and then flip to other side and cook until golden brown.
very tasty and simple recipe!

Chew, thanks for the recipe. Those sound really good!

I use this recipe for pumpkin pancakes:
http://www.zoeyskitchen.com/2008/10/pum ... cakes.html

We just leave out the oil & salt they call for in the recipe.

Hey Rich,

As you know, the problem is, once you take a grain and grind it into a flour, it will no longer pass for MWL. The 2 recipes in the links above look good, but they both use flours and/or refined flours so wouldn't pass for MWL.

However, the one above using rolled oats is very similar to once I used to make and would be as close as you would come.

In Health
Jeff

I know what you mean Jeff, for sure......however...I fail to see how grinding up some oats is much different than what we do with our mouth? Afterall, they all end up ground or chewed before swallowing. However, I understand your thoughts there.

Chew, thanks! Sounds great!

Their is a world of difference between the impact of a few molars chewing on some whole grain intact oats 10-15 (maybe 25) times over the course of a few minutes and the impact of multiple sharp blades grinding/pulverizing a whole grain as many as 300 times per second which is 18,000 times per minute (the Vita Mix actually says it does 600 per second which is 37,000 per minute) into minute flour particles.

This mechanical grinding also increases the surface area and availability of the food (starches and sugar), reduces (and/or disrupts) the effectiveness of the fiber, lowers the nutritional value and increases the insulin and blood sugar response

It also dramatically increases the calorie density by about 3x which means that you can consume much more food and many more calories from foods that have been mechanically ground up than from chewing whole foods before you feel full and satiated per calorie.

In Health
Jeff

Jeff,

This post confuses me again about grains. With regards to oatmeal, are you saying that is is better to eat steel cut oats opposed to rolled oats because they have not been processed i.e., rolled and flattened to cook faster?

Another question: Dr. Essy says eat oatmeal in his book but not quick cooking...why?

I thought oats were oats no matter what you did to them. What is the difference?

With regards to the pancakes, can I just use oatmeal in Bernards recipe if I wanted to try them? Do you have a recipe using intact whole grains?... Never use flour. Thanks

What about the Quacker Whole Grain Cereal I eat. You said they are intact whole grains. They say 100% natural rolled rye, barley, oats, and wheat. Are they intact whole grains since they are rolled? Another thing, I read somewhere that barley is never an intact whole grain becaus eit is very difficult to seperate it from the hull. What's up with this? Is the barley intact in this cereal?


Ginger

No I have never said that nor am I.

Realize that anything we do to a food including picking it, peeling it, cutting it, refrigerating it, etc, is considered processing. Not all processing is harmful and some is beneficial.

You may want to review these threads.

Intact Whole Grains vs Refined Processed Grains
http://www.drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6045
http://www.drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6512
http://www.drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6122
http://www.drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=13214



Oats are basically oats till you grind them into oat flour. Realize it is the 'grinding' that is the main problem and not the rolling, steaming or cutting the whole oat into 2 or 3 pieces (steel cut oats).

I have no problem with quick cooking oats but I do not recommend instant oats as the often have sugar and/or salt added to them.

The processing in regard to the difference between steel cut oats, Irish oats, oat groats, and rolled oats, is minimal and rolling them and/or steaming them has virtually no impact on the nutritional value or the calorie density, which is the real issue.

http://www.drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6045



Dr Barnards recipes uses intact whole grains (rolled oats). The recipe is basically using oatmeal but instead of a 2:1 ratio (water to oats), it is using a 1:1 ratio of water to oats, so the resulting product is thicker and can be shaped into a pancake and heated and come out like the real thing. If the 2:1 ratio was used, they would be very soupy pancakes

You can probably do the exact same thing using day old oatmeal that has solidified though they would be harder to work with after they have solidified.

Also, because the amount of water you are using is less, then calorie density of the pancakes will be higher than the calorie density of oatmeal.

Why? Because the final product will be somewhat drier.



Yes. They are intact whole grains that have been rolled, which, from my perspective, makes no difference. The rolling, only flattens the grain so you can cook it quicker.



Yes.

However, this is semantics.

It is true that their is a hull on Barley that we can not digest well so they remove it. This is not really different that some other grains either as many grains/seeds have outer hulls we remove before eating them. However, the remaining grain is as intact and whole as it can be for humans to eat and so is considered a intact whole grain in my book.

If you really want to understand the difference, just look at the calorie density of the food in its final ready to eat form. Intact whole grains that have been cooked with a 2:1 ratio with water have a calorie density of around 300-550 calories per pound. Refined grains that have been made into a flour and then into a food product (breads, bagels, crackers, dry cereal, etc) have a calorie density of around 1000-1500 calories per pound.

Taking the whole oat or grain and removing the outer most indigestible hull (if it exists) and then flattening, steaming, or cutting the resulting intact "whole" grain once or twice is not the problem.

The real problem here is when we take a oat/grain and finely grind it into a powder/flour and then make a food product out of that powder/flour.

Now, lets look at the above recipes again.

The 2 links above are to recipes that use finely refined/ground flours . Dr Barnards recipe uses the whole intact grain.

In Health
Jeff

veganism4life, what is Quaker whole grain cereal? LIFE cereal?? I am interested. I use spreouted grain cereal and puffed wheat, brown rice and corn but that gets old.

So Jeff, to avoid all processing...should we get on all fours and rip it out of the ground with our mouth to avoid all processing? LOL. Just kidding.

His recipe above uses the intact grain...but as you said...after blending is down to a pulverized product.

I made this today and only blended enough to get it somewhat pasty, but not too long...so I kept more of the grain intact. I was shocked at the recipe calling for two cups of oats. I was the only one eating and I ate every last drop! Boy am I stuffed, but it was good.

It is simple a mixture of rolled oats, rolled barley and rolled rye. The container looks just like the one for Oats and usually is in the same section in the grocery store.

I believe this is the one being referred to

http://www.crossroads-market.com/hard-t ... o/HFCE120/



Of course!

Remember, processing is not the problem depending on how it is done. Refining and harmful processing is the problem

In Health
Jeff

Good point Rich!

I did not see that he recommended you blend them though he is recommending you blend them with the water and fruit which would prevent the blades from doing any real damage. Real refining/grinding can only be done to a dry grain.

However, when I make them they never touch a blender. I mix the oats and water by hand with a spoon as I would for oatmeal so I keep the grains intact and then mix in the fruit, and then cook.

However, in the end, as I said, your blending them in water for a minute or two is nothing like what they do when they take oats and make oat flour.

In Health
Jeff

I thought they were the real thing. At least more so than those made with overprocessed highly refined flours.

Thanks for this thread, particularly the 3x calorie increase by grinding info. I had been wondering about that. Is this because the processing exposes more digestible surface area, or because it destrys the fiber, or both? I had been whirring all my oatmeal for work, which I have to make without a stove top, but have started to whir 1 part oats for a few seconds mixed with two parts whole rolled oats. It gives it better texture as well as dropping the calorie density.

Thanks again.

Mark

Hi Jeff,
This is unclear to me. Did you mean to say that the calorie density of food is changed by grinding it? Isn’t the calorie density a measurment of the calories per gram of food?

According to the USDA National Nutrient Database for Standard Reference
whole durum wheat has 339 calories per 100 grams and whole grain wheat flour has 339 calories per 100 grams. Exactly the same as you would expect. Grinding wouldn’t change the calories in 100 grams of any grain.

I’m assuming you meant to compare boiled/steamed whole grains to flour products such as bread. Where the calorie density per gram is reduced by the additional water used in preparation of boiled/steamed whole grains. Am I correct?
Letha

The calorie density of the dry grain (ie, brown rice) does not change if you measure it whole or ground.

However, we figure calorie density of food in its edible form. This is where the difference (and sometimes confusion) is.

The traditional way of eating a whole grain (ie, brown rice) that has not been ground is to cook it in a 2:1 ratio with water. The resulting end product (Brown rice) is around 500 calories per pound.

The traditional way of eating a ground whole grain is to make it into another product like bread, crackers, bagels, dry cereal. This are much drier, as less if any water/fluid is used, so the calorie density of the final product, that we consume, is much higher usually around 1100-1500 calories per pound.

Hope that helps.

In Health
Jeff