Disappearing Menstruation

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Disappearing Menstruation

Postby Ricy » Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:02 am

Hi, everybody!

This is my first post here on the forum. Thrilled to join the community. Please, be nice :)

Here's the problem. I'm very passionate about veganism and especially about the McDougall program because in all of my years of nutritional research I have never been able to find any diet plan more logical, sustainable and truly healthy! None the less, every time I try to do it how it's supposed to be done, my menstruation seems to disappear. I believe in the program so much that I usually persist for months without letting it get to me but after about 3 months my confidence breaks. I usually have some fish and/or eggs for about a week or two and everything falls back into track.

Has anybody experienced anything similar or at least has an idea why this might be going on? My calorie intake is good. While McDougalling (I might call it), I don't restrict. Thought lack of oils was the issue but nuts and avocados didn't help.

Would love to hear your thoughts!

Bisous (as the French would say),
Ricy
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Re: Disappearing Menstruation

Postby Georgia » Tue Aug 27, 2013 7:33 pm

Well, there's definitely a link between body fat and menstruation. What is your weight usually? Are you perhaps already thin enough that McDougalling makes you lose just a little too much weight?

Oh and by the way, welcome to the boards! :)
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Re: Disappearing Menstruation

Postby LarryChris » Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:14 am

Veganism has lots of positive effects over the body like most of the vegans has good BMIs and a reduced risk of heart disease, diabetes, and cancer. But with limited food choices they are prone to deficiencies like vitamin B12, omega-3 fatty acids, iron, zinc, calcium, and vitamin D.
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Re: Disappearing Menstruation

Postby VegSexy » Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:55 am

I'm very curious to hear what others think of this topic.

I have finally gone 100% WFPB (whole foods plant based) 2 1/2 months ago. I've been clearing out my diet slowing over the past 2 years. Getting rid of coffee of half-n-half was the last and hardest to give up.

During the past 2 month my periods have been diminishing. PMS is gone, and my periods are significantly lighter and shorter. I makes me wonder how impactful estrogen found in animal products is on the human female body.

BTW - I stand at 5' 5" at 165 pounds and it's slow to budge (but budging!) So, I seriously doubt the "lack" of fat on me is significant to have an influence.
~VegSexy

A guy has celery sticking out of one ear, lettuce out of the other, and a zucchini up his nose.
He goes to the doctor and asks him what's wrong.
The doctor tells him, "Well, for one thing, you're not eating right."
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Re: Disappearing Menstruation

Postby Georgia » Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:37 pm

VegSexy wrote:During the past 2 month my periods have been diminishing. PMS is gone, and my periods are significantly lighter and shorter. I makes me wonder how impactful estrogen found in animal products is on the human female body.

BTW - I stand at 5' 5" at 165 pounds and it's slow to budge (but budging!) So, I seriously doubt the "lack" of fat on me is significant to have an influence.


Sounds like a big plus to eating a vegan diet! I'll bet it is connected to your quitting the animal estrogen. When my daughters were very young I saw the impact that meat and milk had on their bodies: the too-early development when eating meat, halted development when we quit meat, and heaviness & cramping later when using milk.

Women athletes sometimes lose their menses because of lack of estrogen, but from what I understand that's when they get down to 100 lbs. or so, for an average height woman. It's great to stop ingesting animal hormones... and leave just a little fat on to make our own. 8)
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Re: Disappearing Menstruation

Postby LarryChris » Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:15 pm

Vegan has a huge impact over the female body and low fat vegan diet decreases fat from your body and increase the fiber, carbohydrate and vitamins.
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Re: Disappearing Menstruation

Postby Ricy » Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:25 am

Georgia wrote:Well, there's definitely a link between body fat and menstruation. What is your weight usually? Are you perhaps already thin enough that McDougalling makes you lose just a little too much weight?

Oh and by the way, welcome to the boards! :)


I've considered that to be the problem but I don't think it is. I'm not that low on body fat to have it be an issue, I think. I'm 5''4' and 114lbs. Although I it is hard to objectively judge these things, especially for someone with a past eating disorder, I think I do have enough meat on me to sustain a normal menstrual cycle.

I would think the lack of mensuration was just an after-effect of my previous disorder and my body taking it's time to fix every system one by one but the fact that seafood and/or eggs gets the problem straightened out gets me thinking that it might be a nutritional deficiency that's the cause.

To address the things you've been mentioning, periods got lighter for me, too. They've always been light but now are even more so. Cramps though have gotten a tad rougher compared to how they were before any diet changes came to be. I don't attribute the pains to veganism, tough. It's more likely due to previous eating history.

And I should mention, when going to see a doctor, they said everything was in good working order and they couldn't find any noticeable problem. Wanted to give me hormones if lack of menstruation was bothering me. I said a firm no to artificial hormones and am now trying to fix it naturally.

Thanks for your help, by the way, guys :)
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Re: Disappearing Menstruation

Postby didi » Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:11 am

Are you using ground flax seed?

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Re: Disappearing Menstruation

Postby Ricy » Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:45 pm

No, didi, I don't use much flaxseed. Why is it that you ask? If it's because of the fats, I count on other nuts for those, like cashews, brazilnuts, walnuts, etc.
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Re: Disappearing Menstruation

Postby lfwfv » Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:54 am

I usually never look at this forum, but i am glad i did. I think your BMI could absolutely be causing your issues, especially with a history of an ED.

I have a very similar story...doctors told me my weight wasn't "anorectic" so my amenorrhea couldn't be linked to my size and wouldn't be remedied by eating more or gaining weight. They recommended pills as well.

Well...hypothalamic amenorrhea is only caused by a few things....low body fat, low calories, too much exercise, stress.

I lost my period eating a healthy MWL diet. I dropped to a BMI of maybe 18.5-19 and my periods stopped. I was "healthy" by medical standards.

After asking Dr. McDougall and Esselstyn for advice and doing my own research (there is a great, active forum on Fertile Thoughts about hypothalamic amenorrhea), i decided to increase the fats i was eating (nut butters mostly), and ate a lot of whole grain flour products. My weight slowly increased to a BMI (between 20 and 21), i got my period back, they slowly normalized, i dropped back down to a BMI around 19.8-20 naturally, and i was able to get pregnant (my son is now 10 months old).

Please don't buy into the myth that a BMI in the normal range is high enough for you. Every woman has a different set-point that allows your body to feel safe enough to support another life (pregnancy). I found eating more fat, and gaining a bit of weight was absolutely the solution for my menstrual difficulties.

And i have an ED history as well, so i am likewise skewed in my view of myself.

I posted about this a few times while i was struggling with the HA, so if you search for "lfwfv" as the author and "amenorrhea", you will likely find more info.

Here is one of them:
http://www.drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=28661&p=287173&hilit=amenorrhea#p287173

all the best
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Re: Disappearing Menstruation

Postby cbs » Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:26 am

just adding more plant fats can help, does usually for me, esp if you have a low bmi. i think for women if you dont have a lot of body fat, you need more plant fats in your diet. fats are needed for hormone production. i am VERY lean and dont do well i'm finding with the view of no overts attitude here. wish you luck.
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Re: Disappearing Menstruation

Postby Ricy » Sat Sep 14, 2013 2:18 am

Loads of thanks for your thoughts, lfwfv!
First, I want to say that I'm so happy for you getting pregnant and having a beautiful baby boy, especially on such a healthy life style! Bless you both!

I do think you may be right about the whole BMI issue. I do agree that the 'normal-range' 18-19 BMI may not be the optimal one for most women, maybe just not a threatening one.
I pretty much try to sort things out by myself before asking for advice. Doing much reading on the subject, I did come to the same conclusions about the fat (both dietary and body fat). Still, I have tried to eat more dietary fat (plant sources:) of no avail and gaining weight doesn't change the situation much either for me.

But since yesterday I do have a new theory about the source of all my struggles with the vegan diet, guys! Believe it or not, I think it's due to forbidden word in these circles protein deficiency !
Because all of the vegan info I've read, suggested that protein was not a problem on a vegan diet, I actually never took the time to consider it. Yesterday, a thought popped into my head that I should check protein requirements and guess what! I'm undereating on protein. Chronically!
When you consider the fact that my ED period was characterized by eating measly amounts of food with very few calories and very, very little protein from both animal and plant sources, then I figure that I could have robbed my body of protein big time. Around that time my nails started getting brittle, I began to have split ends, both things that I had never had before, plus, as you know, my periods stopped.
After that I discovered the vegan diet and gradually started healing my relationship with food. Mentally, I was better but nails, hair and menstruation still were issues which is normal, when I had deprived my body of protein for so long.
Right now I may not be undereating immensely on protein but it is about 10 grams under the recommended minimum for my weight and size. Plus, I do exercise strenuously at least 4 days a week which, to me at least, must mean that I have higher protein requirements than an average sedentary woman. A protein deficiency would also explain the slow rate at which I build muscle (I mean really slow, guys! even though I do hard strength training) which goes away after a week or two of eating fish. The periods come back and muscle begins to form quicker.

Yesterday when I researched this issue I got super psyched! I really do think that this is going to be the answer to my life-long struggle with food and is finally going to make me stick to veganism for sure like I've always wanted. I took measures instantly, checking which plant sources had the highest ratio of calorie to protein and set my sights on lentils. I've boiled 250grs yesterday and today again and that was my lunch and dinner with some carrots added, no fat, yummy! And I have oats for breakfast.
Right now, based on cron-o-meter, I'm getting almost twice the recommended amount of protein for me but I think that's good if I'm doing it for medicinal purposes and fixing a long-term deprivation problem. I think I'm getting almost instant results. The muscle soreness I had for 3 days almost went away by the end of the day. Slow regeneration is another symptom of low protein and I do have slow regeneration of both muscle and wounds. Energy levels were great, too! I even think my hair fell out a little less but I could be imagining that part, I guess.

I'll be absolutely sure to keep you posted on this. I'm so excited! This to me, if it proves to be successful, will be the ultimate testament to the power of plant foods! If it goes well, the world will have another firmly set vegan in it's lines. Wish me luck!

Lots of gratitude for all your help and wishing you a swell day!

Ricy
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Re: Disappearing Menstruation

Postby Broadbean » Sun Sep 15, 2013 6:22 pm

I am the same height as you and now that the last time my period disappeared, I had to be over 20 bmi for it to come back -- and it took a few months at that level for it to do so.
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Re: Disappearing Menstruation

Postby babybuddha » Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:36 am

Am benefitting from reading this thread, it feels very sane and sensitively handled, a lot of honesty Thank you all for opening the conversation, for sharing

lfwfv congratulations on such a happy and positive outcome to your fertility issues.

Similar story, weight dropped super low, but still healthful bmi of 19, i didnt menstruate, but was totally happy about it

i was an exercise fiend and newly into yoga, had travelled to India at great expense to study with top international teachers and didnt want the inconvenience of taking the best part one week off out of four, i suspect others in that tradition, which was very body focussed were in similar circs

i was carb-phobic too and definitely had ED issues. my uk yoga teacher thought i was anorexic and refused to teach me til i gained 8lbs! i could come to class but had to rest under a blanket the whole time (which i didnt, i left the studio)

my periods returned when i regained weight- and then some- through insane emotional binge eating which took me back to overweigh., it took over a year though for them to re-appear

I'm in my mid forties now and my intention is making peace with menstruation, though i still at times get frustrated that i have to take time out from swimming and hiking

my weight is dropping again, thanks to this woe. i'm 5'2 and currently 120lbs, i've been as low as 108, but i figure 115lb is probably a healthy goal- not as low as I'd like for body composition, but high enough to support menstrual health.

I can recommend an awesome book that gives a great cultural context for menstruation, lara owen, 'her blood is gold' it helps me make peace with my issues
http://www.amazon.com/Her-Blood-Gold-Lara-Owen/dp/1906289069/

Jennifer
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expect miracles
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Re: Disappearing Menstruation

Postby Ricy » Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:34 pm

Thanks, everyone, for sharing your experiences and thoughts on the subject! It has been really interesting to read about the things you've gone through in the quest for finding the balance between good looks and good health as women.

I am very pleased to announce that my self-prescribed plant-protein treatment has proved to be a smashing success!
This is the evening of my 5th day of doing this and I've reaped some wonderful results.
First off, my period finally came on its own without the help of any herbs or animal proteins! Yey!
I have been keeping notes this entire time of any changes I might have noticed because I tend to forget this kind of stuff. Here are some of the benefits that I've had since the beginning:
- My nails got noticeably harder from the first day and are still growing strong and hard which is a great relief after having brittle nails for over 2 years now
- My hair went from dry and lifeless to shiny and strong. It regained that long-lost ability to untie itself when I make a knot with a small lock of it.
- Muscle regeneration has been much faster
- Surprisingly, muscle definition went up, too, despite me putting on a little fat from all the excess eating. I think it's from faster muscle gain even though I wasn't doing more exercise than normal.
- For awhile now, I've been having very unpleasant and painful edema every time I would overindulge in carbs like dates and rice. The edema was getting more and more severe recently. I haven't had any since I started boosting protein intake.
- What I thought were the early symptoms of varicose veins, like sensation of heaviness in legs and even pain, have also almost completely gone away. I attribute these last two benefits to the role protein plays in fluid drainage.
- Sugar cravings have gone down. I always deal with these cravings through sweet fruit and they didn't bother me much because I wouldn't feel guilty after indulging in them but not having them as much does hint to me that maybe my blood sugar levels are more stable or something. Though I did miss my habitual big amounts of juicy fruit that I was used to. :)

I think that's about it. I'm very happy with all of these results because they are all issues that have been troubling me for some time now but which I had almost completely given up on ever eliminating. This proves to me that almost any health problem can be treated with plant foods as long as you pick the right ones.

What I was doing for the last days was eating insane amounts of protein rich plant foods with lentils as my staple. I would consume over 80grs of protein in a day with some days going up to over a 100grs. On most days I did consume more calories than I would think to be necessary for my body but I was looking at this as treatment and something that I needed to do. For once in my life I tried not to fixate too much on weight gain. I have put on a couple of pounds but I think I'm still in that period where my body stocks up on nutrients because it's afraid I might deprive it again later on. So I'm giving it some time to figure out that I will be good to it from now on and it doesn't need to store up on anything. I'm building trust, lol.

I'll be going strong on protein for a couple more days until I feel that the situation has been stabilized and after that I'm going to cut back on the protein without it ever dropping as low as before.

Again thanks to all of you for your help and support! I will keep you updated in case I notice any other miracle results :)

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