Discussion Board

I wonder if I'm one of the few people who can't be helped. I started McDougalling on April 9th for my RA. In 10 days I was so happy. I got a false sense of this working when my fingers stopped hurting. But since then there has really been no further improvement. I tried elimination diets twice. Once for a week per Dr. McD's online instructions. Then again I tried a slightly different elim. diet for 3 (long, horrible) weeks. Still no improvement. Not only that, but when I add foods back, I can't really tell if there's a reaction, as opposed to "just a bad night" of which I have many. Possibly drugs are masking reactions to foods.

I'm good about doing Peter Escogue exercises but my knees are no better yet. In all this time, I've had 3 eating slip-ups. Only one big one where I ate ice cream. Otherwise very small, like a few bites of something. I have been following the McD program VERY strictly: No added fats whatsoever. Not even rice milk, any nut products etc.

Now, I'm going to try giving up all fruit in case fructose is a problem.

I'm still on prednisone which is horrible and possibly making me sick faster than I can get better.

This is turning into a depressing lifestyle. Has anyone heard of people who just can't be helped? At this point I just need to know the truth. Nothing is 100% so I may need to have an end point to this "experiment."

I wish I was the type of person who could fast but, failing that several times, I'm not willing to even try fasting again. The reason I chose McDougall in the first place is because this WOE is something I can do. However, if I have to remain on drugs, what's the point?

leslie
I wish I had some answers for you. I don't know enough about predisone treatment to say whether it could be interfering with your being able to determine food triggers. By chance have you been tapering down on your prednisone while doing the ED? I have heard that the withdrawal can produce painful symptoms.

There are a few here who have not gotten complete or necessarily fast relief from their pain conditions with this diet but apparently enough relief to continue with it. And others like Burgess who have had to work very hard to tailor the diet to their own needs to get relief.

One thing I have learned is that there are many causes for my various pains, some diet related, others posture, fitness, injury, and behavior related, and still others that I'm sure have yet to be determined! Each little piece to the puzzle brings me closer to what I am striving for but I see now it's going to be a constant battle for the rest of my life to keep myself in as little pain as possible. It was a hard realization that some of the damage is done and can't be reversed so hopefully I am up for this lifelong battle to repair what can be repaired and manage what can't.

Hopefully you can enjoy this way of eating enough to make it worth experimenting a little more to see if it can provide some relief if you stick with it. And of course there are all the other health benefits that go along with it.

Leslie, It sounds like you are losing patience and exhausted from months, if not years of pain. I am so sorry.

Dr MacDougall says to give it at least a 4 month trial, 100%, for autoimmune disease, and I know for myself that the improvements are really subtle over time, but they are there. Why not eat on the regular plan, without the eliminations, and see how that goes, then eliminate things more slowly? That might make it easier to give this diet a really good try over a long period of time.

Prednisone is awful, no doubt, but it might not be making your disease worse as quickly as you fear.I say this because I know how easy it is to feel guilty about taking medications, when trying to be in the best possible health, and I think we pain sufferers have enough to deal with, without adding extra guilt.

Look at Caroline Duke's Star MacDOougaller story. She had psoriasis, an autoimmune disease, and is a nurse, I believe. She started eating this way for overall health, never expecting it to cure her psoriasis, (which can be extremely painful and disfiguring, and lead to psoriatic arthritis, too.) It took her years to heal from it, she never expected to, yet she did.

This diet is not entirely predictable when it comes to the more complex diseases (autoimmune disease, cancer, etc) that are related to diet but cause by multiple factors (genes, environment, exposures to toxins, overactive sympathetic nervous systems, etc.)

Our bodies apparently choose to heal at their own pace, and prioritize the healing in ways we may not want or expect. But given the opportunity to thrive, the cells will get rid of the extra wastes stored, and the fat will release the toxins stored in them, and changes will occur.

The point of eating this way is not just to stay off drugs, although that is a nice one. The point is OVERALL health, not just the relief from one aspect of health. And healing this way can take a long time. Looking at it that way kept me on the diet many times when I felt like it was all worthless.

We are all rooting for you!

(gentle) {{{{{{HUGS}}}}}} All of us Autoimmune people know how hard this is, emotionally and physically. Coming here for support is very important, too. I am glad you asked this question today.

It surprises me that you think the absence of your finger pain is a false sense. I think that would be a great start. I know the one thing that I keep reminding myself is that I did not get in this condition overnight and it isn't going to go away overnight. I think it depends on what issues are being dealt with, but the body needs time... and consistency in a healthy lifestyle for changes to really start happening.

It took me almost two years to see a change in a chronic condition that my doctors said would never change. I did the program part time, off and on... and saw some results, but it was about eight months after I really buckled down and did the program 100% that I started seeing amazing results. Don't give up. Give it time.

OK, thanks everyone! I feel better after reading these replies. I had previously read only the stories from people with RA, so I saw that all of those people had much, much faster recovery times than I am seeing. That made it seem hopeless. I'm glad to hear not everyone gets better so fast.

I will switch back to the regular McD program and try to be more positive and eat a few enjoyable things, meaning potatoes, corn etc. Hopefully that will improve my state of mind. I tend to get freaked out because prednisone is so toxic and damaging so I feel like it's urgent to get off it as fast as possible. (My sister is in a wheelchair, due in part to prednisone- just my opinion. No doctor would confirm that of course.)

Anyway, I greatly appreciate all your encouragement!

Prednisone withdrawal can cause rebound effects. You want to taper very very slowly, esp if you have been taking it for awhile. Definitely toxic but suddenly stopping or cutting back too quickly is also not good.

Yay, Leslie! Yes, stick with Dr. McD. I think Nicole's suggestion to go back to the regular plan is a good one. Try to focus on the good you are doing for your body and try to eat meals you enjoy. And from there it is likely things will fall into place.

I'm sure with the EDs you've followed up til now you've probably learned a lot more than you realize in how foods are affecting your overall feeling of wellbeing, energy levels, moods, etc., even if you can't pinpoint exact reactions to certain foods. You're reactions may prove to much more subtle than what you have read about so far on this forum, and you're healing may be very subtle as well.

I should mention again that while I saw a huge improvement after 3 weeks on my ED, I was still not out of the woods and was still prone to some bad flare ups for a while longer. My healing from that point on has been subtle and less noticeable, just a sense of getting more balanced as time passes the longer on the diet. And even though my recent diet slipups haven't caused a flare, I still have a sense of not being quite right inside yet and that I really need to be a lot more careful than I have been lately to avoid going back to where I was. Just a sense that the PMR is still lurking there ready to cause problems if I let it, so I know I still have work to do. As Pacificlords posted, our pain conditions weren't created overnight, for most of us they won't be fixed overnight. It will likely be a lifelong healing process! This WOE gives the optimal conditions for that healing in the longrun.
Blue

I think MWL might be the best call but either that or "regular", I would recommend gluten free for sure. Gluten is really the one thing allowed that can often be problematic for people w/ autoimmune issues and with everything else going on, not so easy to tell. Safer and easier to just leave it out until your symptoms have gone away enough to clearly tell if it causes issues when you add it back. Lots of other grains and roots to fill you up!

Yes, of all foods, I definitely think I have a gluten sensitivity. I haven't looked at MWL but I can.

Basically only unprocessed, in a sense, cleanest, definitely simplest version. Well, Mary's Mini is simpler but I think MWL is where it's at for life!

I just had a bone scan. My last one, a few years ago was, to quote the doctor, "stellar, gold star!" This one was bad. I know it's because of the prednisone and also that I can barely do anything in the gym any more. I still wonder if this drug is making me sick faster than this diet can make me well.

Leslie, I cannot say for sure whether it is or not. But I do know that Star McDougaller Katydid was on steroids for her asthma for a long time, and had reduced bone density, but think (not sure) that she built the bone back up when she went off of them.

Why not ask her about it in the Ask a Star McDougaller section?

Yes, that's true and she sent me a link to a scary study on prednisone causing osteopenia (or osteo-something, I forget). She said she ate a lot of leafy greens which I will try to do. I'm desperate to get off this drug fast but I can't get the dosage down at all yet. The doc recommended that I go on Fosamax or Boniva which I'm not going to do.

Glad you are in contact with her!

What about trying out wearing a weight vest in the meantime? Can you do that with the pain?

Weight vest is a good idea. I plan on going back to the gym tomorrow AM to see exactly what I can do. Haven't been in a long time.

Meanwhile, I have just gone from 5mg to 4mg of prednisone. Tried that before and failed but today it seems to be OK. Hope it's not a fluke day. Even going down by 1 mg will improve my metal state a lot.