Discussion Board

Hello everyone, this is my first posting. My husband has lost 30 pounds over the past 6 months on a healthy vegan/McDougall diet (I'm the chef/dietitian/diet coach btw). He would still like to lose another 5, but I think he's reached his proper weight now. His doctor was initially very skeptical about the possibility of getting him off his diabetes type 2 medication due to diet changes (which he's been taking for the past 15 years), but last month he agreed that my husband could stop taking one of the other pills he was on (sorry I don't remember the name) and just take his metmorfin for the time being (his last blood sugar test results were so low we were joking that we were going to have to give him sugar pills soon) I would be very grateful to have some opinions on when he can stop taking his medication all together. FYI my husband is 49. Thoughts?

Congratulations to you and your husband on your husband's weight loss and improving health, Nordgirl! I can't answer your question about Metformin, but if you haven't seen it already, you might like to read about how Dr. McDougall treats diabetes: http://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2009nl/dec/diabetes.htm

I don't have an opinion on when your husband can stop taking his metformin -- in my world view that's really something that only he can decide, in consultation with but not necessarily with the agreement of his doctor.

However, I am somewhat in the same boat, so I can tell you some of the considerations I'm considering.

I have lost about 110lbs so far since starting a plant-based diet, and my diabetes is now very much under control (A1C 5.3, fasting blood sugars in the 90s) even though I'm still grossly obese with another 100 pounds to lose before I can even start wondering what my healthy goal weight should be. I took the "call 1-800-BAD DRUG" diabetes med (Avandia) for about five years before transitioning to Januvia and then -- some months later -- convincing my Dr. I didn't need it any more after starting to eat plants -- but I'm still on the Metformin, as I was all along.

Do I still need it? Well, my doctor thinks so, and though I'm not as convinced, my research tells me Metformin is the safest and most effective of the diabetes meds, and I've never had any side effects from it. So -- although I fully intend to get off it -- my sense of urgency is low, and right now, it's more important to me to keep my doctor in a cooperative spirit so I can get the lipids tests and such that I want/need when I want/need them. It's also the case that my blood sugar numbers could still be better; and I expect to see them improve further as I lose more weight (perhaps not a factor for your husband). Whether they improve or not, I figure there's plenty of time to revisit this as my doctor starts to believe my various improvements are not a temporary fluke.

I am aware that if Dr. McDougall or another one of the plant doctors was in charge of my care, they'd be more likely to stop medications first and then monitor closely just to make sure that doesn't cause any problems. But the "monitor closely" is a key part of that plan, and outside the very small plant-strong medical bubble, good luck finding a doctor willing to play it that way! So I'm dealing with the reality of the medical care I have, not the medical care I might wish I had. My current doctor has promised to look at reducing or eliminating some of my blood pressure meds at our next visit, that's progress as far as I'm concerned. I don't feel any need for haste in eliminating well-tolerated meds, as long as I'm making steady progress toward a more meds-free life.

Hope this perspective is useful in some way!

Dear Kiki, thank you for giving me the link to the diabetes treatment page, definitely a lot to think about, I'm very gad to have the info. Mixed grains, I think it's wonderful that you're well on the way towards achieving your weight loss goal, I'm certain that your health will improve as the numbers go down. I think I'm living proof that this lifestyle works, because although I've always loved vegetables and whole grains, I was also eating meat and dairy products several times a week. This was never a problem until I was 35, then guess what, I put on 10 pounds that I seemed unable to shift. After seeing forks over knives I immediately put my husband on the McDougall eating plan, and of course I ate what he ate and guess what, the 10 extra pounds have disappeared without any 'dieting', and now I'm back to my high school weight. You will get there eventually, I'm sure of it. Long life and good health to everyone.

Definitely something to be decided w/ doctor's input. One thing I do know though is that low blood sugar from diet alone is a good thing. Almost impossible to be too low if eating really healthy diet. But too low w/ medication is very possible and can be quite dangerous. So my amateur suggestion would be to make a doctor appointment ASAP and discuss it with them.

At his last appointment, the doctor never said anything about his blood sugar being too low, just that it was excellent. We looked at the graph and saw that it was at the low range of normal, that's what I was referring to. I know his doctor (who has a weight problem by the way) is very conservative, and after seeing his puzzled face when we told him about our dietary changes, frankly I don't think he will ever want to get my husband off the meds. What we've decided to do is stop the memorfin as of today which will give him about 2 weeks before his next appointment and blood test. I hope that will give us enough time to see what's going on without it. He will also be checking his blood sugar levels everyday with a home kit.

I had read that this WOE could reverse diabetes, I was not prepared to have to make major changes in a my medication in just a couple of weeks. I was on glipizide and 2000 mg of metmorfin, daily. My cardiologist wants me on 500 mg a day of the metmorfin.

I must admit, that when I do take it, my blood sugar is really really great. It will rarely spike higher than 125. When I don't take it, it will spike up higher after meals, sometimes as high as 160, which I don't find all that troubling, because in the mornings whether I take it or don't, my blood sugar is always 95-100.

You are so right. Finding a doctor who is plant based is difficult. I live in NYC and every doctor I have seen who takes my insurance is drug based. I can't convince any of them to wean me off drugs. I guess the only option is for me to do it and self-monitor.

sligg

Just thought I'd mention this. NOT something to trust blind because everyone is different but I have seen studies showing 2 Tbs (one ounce) of vinegar just before or mixed in with meals, has as much effect for some people as Metformin. I learned about it from a friend who can't afford to buy the drug and needs it but he does test his blood sugar carefully and whenever he makes any changes, tests often until he is sure what is going on. He in fact found that he does fine without the drug so long as he uses the vinegar. And eat Paleo meat/fat/greens diet! Don't trust my printed words though, trust your blood sugar meter.

Three day update without metmorfin is that husband is feeling great, and testing like crazy, I hope he won't run out of blood results range from high range of normal to good-normal. He still has 5 lbs to lose but I'm thinking that it 's going to go fast since I figured out yesterday that we're not supposed to be eating oils on the diet, whoops... I think the best thing about getting off the meds is that now that we don't have it to fall back on it really encourages us to do our very best on the diet and exercise (45 min. a day mon-fri). I think that subconsciously we were using the meds as an excuse to go off the diet more than we should have been.

I think that's often the case w/ drugs! I know my mom sees NO reason to give up dairy since her cholesterol is now "normal" on Lipitor. I don't understand that mentality! Keep us posted on hubby's progress!

After 5 days, husband is doing better than ever, I stopped the oils in the diet at the same time he stopped the metmorfin and he has lost almost 2 pounds of the final 5 he was trying to lose (I was the queen of olive oil ). I've also lost a pound without trying, how cool is that? His blood sugar numbers have progressively gotten better every day, we have a nifty little app that logs everything. This morning (Thursday) his fasting number was 93, (it was 113 Monday morning) and that was after a hearty dinner of lentil/bean shepherd's pie with a thick potato, sweet potato and carrot topping (that composed 50% of his plate, the rest was made up of green beans and broccoli).

So much for the carbohydrates being bad for diabetics theory. The only issue we're concerned about is that he has a noticeable spike after breakfast (198 Monday morning - all his other numbers were under 130 for the day). Today I gave him the same breakfast (raw oats with soya milk) but with no coffee, and it seems to have had an effect on his 2 hour post breakfast reading because it was 129! That's quite a drop from 198 in 4 days. I guess coffee is going off the menu around here.

My only regret is that we didn't do any testing while he was on the metmorfin, it would have been really nice to know what was going on before, not a very scientific approach! Oh well, I'll settle for normal blood readings thank you very much.

I just read your testimonial, what an inspiring story. You look amazing. Thanks to you, I've just decided to quit coffee cold turkey, 2 week headache here we come! I say that because I quit that way when I found out I was pregnant and that was the result.

Keep in mind that I did NOT quit cold turkey! I couldn't handle the headaches. I weaned myself off gradually--first to decaf coffee (which still has up to 30% of the caffeine of regular coffee), then gradually to herb tea. This was over the course of several months, and I had no bad side effects.

I'm an all or nothing kind of gal. I managed to find a pure chicory without milk or chemicals or coffee (yes, some of them had a small amount of coffee in them) and I'm good to go tomorrow morning. I only drink one cup of coffee a day, so it shouldn't be too terrible.