Dr. McDougall's Online Discussion Board

BMI <= 22. That's the benchmark I have had on my mind this past year or so, once I settled into the McDougall diet (in September 2010).

I am 5 feet 10 inches tall. So for me, a BMI of 22 is about 153 pounds. When I stepped on the scale, sometimes it would say 152 but other times it would say 156.

I have wanted to be on the lower half of the normal BMI range of 18.5 to 25. But since I have been eating a fairly clean McDougall diet, what more could I really do? Maybe I was just doomed, doomed to always be in limbo, somewhere between the lower half of the normal BMI and the upper half of normal BMI.

Answer: Eat salad.

Last week I started eating a salad at work for lunch before I would eat my pasta with vegetables/marinara sauce meal. After about a week of this I noticed that my weight was hovering in the 148 to 151 ballpark, instead of the 152 to 156 ballpark.

I have not been intentionally restricting my starches, not even whole wheat pasta, which is my most common lunch/work food. (I do try to dilute the whole wheat pasta dish with 2 pounds of frozen vegetables cooked into the marinara sauce.)

So, while my experience might not be shared by everyone, I do think that eating a salad once or twice each day, with low-fat, low-sodium salad dressing if desired, might be a good way to lose a few extra pounds.

Even if you eat tons of pasta.

Jeff says to eat soup or salad first before the starch, which I always do. And I stick more to the MWL. Yet although my bmi is normal, I am still ten pounds heavier than on my wedding day almost fifty years ago. I know my activity is a whole lot less despite the walks and gym time. Even if I stick strictly to vegetables I am having a hard time losing. If I eat starches I will gain a couple of pounds. Just like you. I assume it is glycogen and water weight but cutting out the starches just brings me down a couple of pounds to where I was before eating the bit extra of starches and I still can't get below that.

Like you it is only a couple of pounds difference but it would be nice to be able to lose them. So far I have gone only so low eating those salads.

didi

When I went from mostly McDougall to more a Fuhrman style diet, I went from 150 to 140 and was dropping even lower which I did not like. I am back up to 143 now but very hard to keep from dropping lower.No calories in salads and greens if you eat a lot of that stuff.

I also have horrible anxiety and that causes me not to eat so that is playing a role also. I once went from 170 to about 130 in about a month in a mental hospital (during a Rx drug detox - benzos for anxiety) and I was not eating PB then. They literally had to force me to eat.

I am 5'10" btw.

I started eating a big salad for lunch like Fuhrman recommends and wow what a change. I don't miss SAD lunch at all. And now a SAD lunch just doesn't satisfy like a salad. I'll add beans, etc. And I have regular and healthy bowl movements, which makes you very happy.

dteresa wrote: Jeff says to eat soup or salad first before the starch, which I always do. And I stick more to the MWL. Yet although my bmi is normal, I am still ten pounds heavier than on my wedding day almost fifty years ago.

In the study that Jeff talks about, the soup was much more effective than the salad. And I believe he mentions something about 20 minutes before meal. So the best would be to eat a bowl of low-cal vegetable soup, then slowly eat a salad, then eat main dish of starches (and more vegetables).

I find that the more potatoes I eat, the more I lose, as much as it's not scientific, so I don't bring it up a lot. Doesn't work with rice for me, though. Probably I'm replacing higher calorie legumes with the potatoes, but often it feels like I'm just adding extra potato and I still lose more (I'll eat 11 medium potatoes in a day plus 2 cartons of Just Right soup plus 2 pounds of fruit (not MWL, I know, but that's my preferred breakfast after I started having a problem with oatmeal) plus a few pounds of greens/non starchy veggies, and seem to lose more than the periods when I don't eat as many potatoes). My metabolism has slowed down, but I'm still premenopausal (49), and exercise a lot.

Here is the correct way to eat salad without being a pig about it!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/2 ... 87802.html

What would you say about satiation-I eat 2-3 lbs raw and cooked green veggies, 1-2 lbs fruit, 1/2c legumes and 2.5 lbs japanese sweet potato every day yet still dont feel satiated. I crave nuts and nut butters or something. I am distraught....I want to so badly have nuts-but not just a couple-but I dont let myself have any bc I cant stop at 1.

sprout92 wrote:What would you say about satiation-I eat 2-3 lbs raw and cooked green veggies, 1-2 lbs fruit, 1/2c legumes and 2.5 lbs japanese sweet potato every day yet still dont feel satiated. I crave nuts and nut butters or something. I am distraught....I want to so badly have nuts-but not just a couple-but I dont let myself have any bc I cant stop at 1. Any ideas?

I struggle with this issue and have talked about it in the other thread up now called Starches First. What sets McD apart is the focus on starch, but we/I lose track of this focus and get caught up in trying to get optimal nutrition and eating vegetables. The downfall is cravings and lack of fullness. This is the problem with all the other plant diet doctors like Furman. One can't be satiated on veggies alone. The starch is key. I personally am going to focus on the starch for meals and snacks and then add in veggies and fruit. Interestingly, there's another thread active right now where a woman is experimenting with eating more starch and less veg (if i understand correctly) and actually losing more weight.

My new mantra for myself is…'it's the starch dummy'

Or repurpose the KISS principle for: Keep It Starch, Stupid!

ETL recommends 2 lbs of veggies, 1 lb raw and 1 lb cooked. Dr. McDougall doesn't give a exact amount veggies, as he stresses satiety comes from starch/starch veggies. He suggests filling up with salads and soups but in essence it is starch first because that is where the satiety is. The volume eating of too many low calorie dense veggies will balance itself out.

Jeff Novick's Calorie Density Chart is excellent guide:



Just stay in the green areas.

Aloha, patty

I've done lots and lots of experiments with food and diets, and I'm going in the direction you are talking about. But I seem to be able to stay on my new lifestyle for a maximum of 14 days, then I have a relapse! Can't figure it out.

I guess since I started this thread, I should post some updated thoughts.

I eat a raw salad 2 times each day (once just before lunch and once just before dinner) made up of iceberg or romaine lettuce, tomatoes, onion and cucumbers, all as raw foods.

When Dr. Esselstyn mentions a list of green leafy vegetables (non-starchy vegetables) in less than 20 seconds before he runs out of breath, he mentions romaine lettuce but not iceberg lettuce.

However, Jeff Novick has examined the nutritional properties of iceberg lettuce and found that iceberg isn't junk food. It's a healthy food. It's a little less expensive than romaine lettuce. So, when I purchase my "pre-made, pre-washed" salads in a plastic bag at my nearby grocery store, most of the time I buy the iceberg mix. It has carrots and radicchio (red cabbage) and I usually add in some sliced onion and sliced tomato.

As of this morning, I weighed 147.2 pounds. Since I run a half marathon in a few days, I am glad to have a lower race weight.

For salad dressing that is both low-sodium and low-fat (and also reasonably low in sugar), I recommend either balsamic vinegar, apple cider vinegar or Bella's Strawberry Vinegarette or a combination of all three (that's what I do).

This is also how Jeff teaches us to eat in his Calorie Density DVD. He explains the research studies that show how low cal, non starchy veg soup and/or salad preloads work for losing weight. The bulk of the calories always comes from starch, but the bulk of the food by volume can vary a lot.

From Dr McDougall



Aloha, patty