Intelligence, Atheism, and Vegetarianism

Gramma Jackie · **Posted:** Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:46 pm

Mrs. Doodlepunk wrote:

Gramma Jackie wrote:

Anyway, I would like to ask you Mrs. Doodlepunk where I can find the scripture reference that says God's law is divided between moral, ceremonial and civil. Thanks.

I believe it's in the book of Hebrews in the New Testament? I will find it and if it's different will let you know.

I am a graduate of a conservative Bible college with a degree in Biblical Literature and my husband is a former ordained minister and retired military chaplain and I've studied the Bible intensely for many years. Actually, there is no scripture in the Bible dividing up God's law into "moral, ceremonial and civil." It is always simply referred to as "the law" or in some translations "the ordinances." I am not trying to embarrass you, but you brought up the subject and it bothers me that people repeat things they've heard that are incorrect.

Mrs. Doodlepunk · **Joined:** Thu Oct 19, 2006 6:10 pm **Posts:** 3556

Gramma Jackie wrote:

I am a graduate of a conservative Bible college with a degree in Biblical Literature and my husband is a former ordained minister and retired military chaplain and I've studied the Bible intensely for many years. Actually, there is no scripture in the Bible dividing up God's law into "moral, ceremonial and civil." It is always simply referred to as "the law" or in some translations "the ordinances." I am not trying to embarrass you, but you brought up the subject and it bothers me that people repeat things they've heard that are incorrect.

You are right that there is no specific scripture reference that divides the law into those categories. But that doesn't change the fact that there are three types of law, those that govern moral things, those that cover civil and ceremonial.

Gramma Jackie · **Posted:** Wed Mar 24, 2010 6:43 pm

Mrs. Doodlepunk wrote:

Gramma Jackie wrote:

I am a graduate of a conservative Bible college with a degree in Biblical Literature and my husband is a former ordained minister and retired military chaplain and I've studied the Bible intensely for many years. Actually, there is no scripture in the Bible dividing up God's law into "moral, ceremonial and civil." It is always simply referred to as "the law" or in some translations "the ordinances." I am not trying to embarrass you, but you brought up the subject and it bothers me that people repeat things they've heard that are incorrect.

You are right that there is no specific scripture reference that divides the law into those categories. But that doesn't change the fact that there are three types of law, those that govern moral things, those that cover civil and ceremonial.

That distinction was never made in the Bible. If there is no scripture to back up a statement about the Bible, then it is simply an interpretation.

Mrs. Doodlepunk · **Joined:** Thu Oct 19, 2006 6:10 pm **Posts:** 3556

Gramma Jackie wrote:

That distinction was never made in the Bible. If there is no scripture to back up a statement about the Bible, then it is simply an interpretation.

Again, that does not mean it's not true. I stand by my words and my interpretation.

What is your stand on the Trinity?

Letha.. · **Joined:** Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:07 pm **Posts:** 1062

Mrs. Doodlepunk wrote:

What is your stand on the Trinity?

What is the Trinity?
Letha

Letha.. · **Joined:** Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:07 pm **Posts:** 1062

dlb wrote:

Many church institutions still try to have their people live under the law. It is a way of gaining control, power, etc. That is one of my basic problems with some Christian religious organizations. Donna

Hi Donna, Are you talking about mainstream organizations or about just a few Christian cults like the Branch Davidians in Waco or Jim Jones’ People’s Temple in Guayana, Jonestown? Also, I’m not exactly sure what you mean by “the law”. Is that like the references about the evils of drinking such as these?

Luke 12:45-47 (New Living Translation)
45 But what if the servant thinks, ‘My master won’t be back for a while,’ and he begins beating the other servants, partying, and getting drunk? 46 The master will return unannounced and unexpected, and he will cut the servant in pieces and banish him with the unfaithful.
47 “And a servant who knows what the master wants, but isn’t prepared and doesn’t carry out those instructions, will be severely punished.

Luke 21:34 (New Living Translation)
34 “Watch out! Don’t let your hearts be dulled by carousing and drunkenness, and by the worries of this life. Don’t let that day catch you unaware,

Romans 13:13 (New Living Translation)
13 Because we belong to the day, we must live decent lives for all to see. Don’t participate in the darkness of wild parties and drunkenness, or in sexual promiscuity and immoral living, or in quarreling and jealousy.

1 Corinthians 5:11 (New Living Translation)
11 I meant that you are not to associate with anyone who claims to be a believer[a] yet indulges in sexual sin, or is greedy, or worships idols, or is abusive, or is a drunkard, or cheats people. Don’t even eat with such people.

1 Corinthians 6:10 (New Living Translation)
10 or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people—none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God.

Galatians 5:21 (New Living Translation)
21 envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

Ephesians 5:18 (New Living Translation)
18 Don’t be drunk with wine, because that will ruin your life. Instead, be filled with the Holy Spirit,

1 Peter 4:3-4 (New Living Translation)
3 You have had enough in the past of the evil things that godless people enjoy—their immorality and lust, their feasting and drunkenness and wild parties, and their terrible worship of idols.
4 Of course, your former friends are surprised when you no longer plunge into the flood of wild and destructive things they do. So they slander you.

Gramma Jackie · **Posted:** Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:34 am

Mrs. Doodlepunk wrote:

Gramma Jackie wrote:

That distinction was never made in the Bible. If there is no scripture to back up a statement about the Bible, then it is simply an interpretation.

Again, that does not mean it's not true. I stand by my words and my interpretation.

What is your stand on the Trinity?

The trinity is not simply a concept. It IS mentioned in the Bible in Matthew 28:19 when it says "Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost."

As far as the law is concerned, many Jews and some Christians feel like it is still in force. Some Christians, however have picked which part they want to obey. They feel that Colossians 2:13
teaches that Christians are no longer under the Old Testament law, but if that is true, then it would apply to all the law because NO WHERE in the Bible does it say that there is any distinction between moral, ceremonial and civil. Even if only the moral law were in effect, then Christians would certainly be violating it every week when they go to church on Sunday instead of Saturday which is the Sabbath. This is why Seventh Day adventists (as well as many Jews) not only worship on Saturday but still try to keep the laws about food. The fact of the matter is that there are indeed many interpretations of the Bible. Everyone sees it differently. There are literally thousands of Christian denominations and hundreds of splits in all the major denominations. This is why I no longer use the bible as my sole guide in life. Even the apostles Paul and Peter could not agree and went their separate ways causing the first church split way back in the first century. While I agree with much of the wisdom of some parts of the Bible and the precepts of the Sermon on the Mount, I cannot believe that there is only one way for people to believe.

Mrs. Doodlepunk · **Joined:** Thu Oct 19, 2006 6:10 pm **Posts:** 3556

Gramma Jackie wrote:

They feel that Colossians 2:13
teaches that Christians are no longer under the Old Testament law, but if that is true, then it would apply to all the law because NO WHERE in the Bible does it say that there is any distinction between moral, ceremonial and civil.

Colossians 2:11-15 (New International Version)

11In him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature,[a] not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ, 12having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.

13When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you[c] alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14[b]having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. 15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.[d]

Well, I disagree with you. I don't have a degree from a Bible college and doubt that it would help me anyhow. ;-)

Gramma Jackie · **Posted:** Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:55 am

Like I said, if Jesus canceled the written code and that means the law, then most Christians break it every Sunday because they are not worshipping on the Sabbath as God commanded. Originally the apostles continued to worship on the Sabbath after Jesus died, but Paul apparently changed that as Scripture records he began to preach on Sundays. However, there is nothing in the Bible that says God ever commanded anything other than Sabbath (Saturday) worship to commemorate when he rested after the creation. (BTW, I am not and never was a Seventh Day Adventist just in case you were wondering.)

It's not that I really care, but Christians are so inconsistant in their views.

Remember, you wanted a special place all your own to post. So did some of the rest of us. I have no intention whatsoever of coming over on the Christian thread and I am really wondering why you are commenting on the atheism thread. It's not that you are not welcome, as I am sure Letha who started this thread would agree, but I still wonder why you are here? This is a thread primarily for non-Christians.

jada · **Joined:** Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:48 am **Posts:** 1

Dear Letha,

I'm a new member here, learning all I can about a low fat vegan way of life. I really have admired your accomplishments and thank you for all the things I have learned from you.

I have watched this religious discussion from the beginning and frankly, find it puzzling. You really do seem to be an intelligent person but why do you feel you must be a bully? You haven't posted on this board for almost a month until this discussion came up. Most likely you would claim to be the most tolerant and compassionate person you know. So, why isn't this tolerance and compassion extended to Christians? You have your own board and members who support you. Why is it neccesary to come to this board and publicly attack the beliefs of Christians? Not one of them belittled your beliefs.

As a outsider looking in, if I were not already secure in what I believe, I would not be attracted to the vegan way of life, by your example alone. Do try to grow up and be a more tolerant, compassionate person toward others who do not think like you.

What a shame this childish behavior has been allowed to continue on this forum.

Ps... I have a search feature on my computer as you do. When I type in "the trinity", the answer comes straight up. So, I know you are asking to further belittle. Be a nice little girl... go home and play with those who think you're brave, brilliant and wonderful and leave the "mothership" at peace.

Letha.. · **Joined:** Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:07 pm **Posts:** 1062

Gramma Jackie wrote:

The trinity is not simply a concept. It IS mentioned in the Bible in Matthew 28:19 when it says "Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost."

I don’t recall a reference to a Holy Ghost from when I attended church as a child. Is this term translated differently in various versions of the bible or is the Holy Ghost one of those things that are only recognized by a few very small Christian groups?
Letha

f1jim · **Posted:** Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:03 am

Hey
Let's all have a good fight over religion! Watcha think? It would be a great time for everyone to focus on diet and let the petty arguing go.
Everyone!
f1jim

Letha.. · **Joined:** Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:07 pm **Posts:** 1062

jada wrote:

Dear Letha,
You really do seem to be an intelligent person but why do you feel you must be a bully?

I don’t feel I must be a bully.

Letha

Letha.. · **Joined:** Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:07 pm **Posts:** 1062

f1jim wrote:

Hey
Let's all have a good fight over religion! Watcha think?
f1jim

Sounds good to me!

Mrs. Doodlepunk · **Joined:** Thu Oct 19, 2006 6:10 pm **Posts:** 3556

Gramma Jackie wrote:

Remember, you wanted a special place all your own to post. So did some of the rest of us. I have no intention whatsoever of coming over on the Christian thread and I am really wondering why you are commenting on the atheism thread. It's not that you are not welcome, as I am sure Letha who started this thread would agree, but I still wonder why you are here? This is a thread primarily for non-Christians.

I don't recall asking for a special place to post. Or is there someone else you are referring to as "you"? Do you mean the rest of us pesky, annoying Christians?

I'm here because I saw a question directed at Christians. I didn't know that the Christians and athiests were supposed to stay apart! I won't make the mistake again. Thank you for correcting me! :lol:

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