Discussion Board

Hey, on one of Dr. M's DVD's he spoke about "fake" foods. We all know the stuff. The fake hot dogs, meat crumbles, cold cuts, chicken, etc. etc. My husband and I used to use the stuff on occasion. I had a really good recipe for the "fake" hot dogs. But after listening to Dr. McDougall speak about it, and the dangers of the stuff, we haven't used any of it since.
Do we miss it? Yeah, but I have enough recipe's that we can live without the fake foods. And by the way I ALWAYS ALWAYS read ingredient labels. Actually, I often drive myself crazy doing this, but it sure helps. You'd be surprised at what manufacturers want to throw in that really isn't good for us.
I also read "serving sizes." You'd be surprised there as well. Many years ago, before our vegan days I had the opportunity to see a typical "huge" blueberry muffin. You all know the big prepackaged Sarah Lee muffins. Well, the package said it was "low-fat" or something to that effect. But when you read the SERVING SIZE you got a mouthful!! And the serving size? A HALF OF THE MUFFIN!!! Now , realistically, who eats 1/2 of a muffin? No one that I know!!
Got to go, believe it or not, I have a customer. And hey, for those who are going to try the pizza recipe's you should really enjoy them. I don't know how to make them gluetn free, but I'll look and see if I have any recipe that qualify's.

Luke 16:20-31 (New International Version)

20At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In hell,[a] where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'

25"But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'

27"He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'

29"Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'

30" 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.'

31"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "

Jesus ate fish, or at least he multiplied them and fed the crowd.
He hung out with fsihermen.

He obviously wasn't a McDougaller!

Be well and God Bless,
-dog

"13Let us therefore no longer pass judgment on one another, but resolve instead never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of another. 14I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; but it is unclean for anyone who thinks it unclean. 15If your brother or sister is being injured by what you eat, you are no longer walking in love. Do not let what you eat cause the ruin of one for whom Christ died. 16So do not let your good be spoken of as evil. 17For the kingdom of God is not food and drink but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. 18The one who thus serves Christ is acceptable to God and has human approval. 19Let us then pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding. 20Do not, for the sake of food, destroy the work of God. Everything is indeed clean, but it is wrong for you to make others fall by what you eat; 21it is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that makes your brother or sister stumble. 22The faith that you have, have as your own conviction before God. Blessed are those who have no reason to condemn themselves because of what they approve. 23But those who have doubts are condemned if they eat, because they do not act from faith; for whatever does not proceed from faith is sin." (Romans 14, NRSV)

Evening all,

I have often wondered if this is the program the Lord wants me doing. Paul said that all things are permissable but not always advisable. (my paraphrase)

He gave us deminion over the animals. Should't it be healthy to eat? My grandma lived to 98. She went in her sleep watching her favorite soap opera. I think she want to go and be with my grandpa.

Anyhow, I posted my wonderful day of easy beautiful food.

I popped in the breakfast I made the night before (apples and cinnamon bread.

Then I made a neat thing. I blended garbonzo beans with roasted red peppers and spices. I grill polenta rounds and made quacamole. Put it on the table and told them to make their own little pizza.
Beautiful! yellow round of polents topped with orange hummus, and green quacamole. I swear it looked like something you'd get in a restuarant. God bless, kc

KC, this is where "ethical" vegans, it seems to me, are at odds with the Good Book. IMHO it would be impossible to conclude from the Bible alone that it is wrong/sinful to eat animal products. However, the Jews, around 3,500 years ago, were commanded not to eat the fat (Leviticus 3.17) and they possibly ate a diet that was much lower in fat than the SAD.

Yes, Jesus fed people fish (John 6, 21). I also see nothing in the Bible to suggest that He was a vegetarian. So while I would certainly not argue that eating fish is a sin or even that eating a little of it is necessarily inherently unhealthy, I have concerns about the quality of water in many places and thus the quality of the fish. Dr. Dean Ornish and Dr. McDougall recommend omitting fish due to the fat/cholesterol it contains [http://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2007nl/jun/confessions.htm].

So the question in regard to animal products, including fish, for me is this, "Do I have better choices?" If you find yourself in a situation where you have no better options, eat fish--or beef. Please don't starve to death! However, I appreciate this site as a great educational resource and it, among other resources, has convinced me that a plant based diet is ideal. I am grateful for the good plants and think I can help prevent cardiovascular disease by omitting the animal products and keeping the fat intake low. That is all of the rationale I need to omit animal products from my diet.

The most difficult thing about following the program here is that it is not popular. In other words, you may often find yourself with others who eat quite differently and think you are weird. I also do not like to be considered "hard to please" in regard to diet or other things. However, to preserve health and prevent diseases and to be a good caretaker of this body/temple He has given me, I am willing to be strange!

Yes, I don't believe anywhere in the bible you will find it said that we must not eat animals.

However,

I may not be able to live in the Garden of Eden but I can eat like I do .

Hope everyone has a blessed day.

Donna

It is interesting that before the fall of man, no animals were ever killed...and therefore not eaten by humans. So, when you think of how God created our bodies, I think it's safe to assume that in His perfect design, He originally intended us to be vegetarians. I think that means it makes sense that our bodies run best when fed whole plant foods. That's not to say in any way that eating meat now is a sin. I just find it interesting.

Kristykay, I have often thought about that too. My friend is always taking me back to the beginning. She goes so far as to say that we were never suppose to give birth to children that God brought Eve and He would'a brought the kids too.

Maybe she's right, I don't know. I do know one thing. Before this program I noticed that I could eat protein but if I didn't have a nice portion of veggies, I kinda went all tired.

Anyhow, I made a spinach and mushroom fritata and put it over hash browns I made crispy in the waffle maker. It was grumb'n. Well, I'm going to bed. Bless ya all, kc

Good morning everyone,

I had a stomach virus over the weekend and my husband has a sinus infection and bronchitis. Needless to say, we didn't get much accomplished around the house. So today is catch-up day. I did get to Walmart last evening, when I got to feeling better, so I've got plenty of McDougall supplies now.

forlife - I really enjoyed the sedar I went to. Like you said, very moving and very insightful.

Luv the Lorax - Wow! you sure have alot going on! I hope you and your parents have a wonderful time together.

Wendy Jane _ I got the ingredients for the pizza and will be making it today or tomorrow!

Mrs Doodlepunk - thank you for the scripture. It is so true that people are not convinced even if someone rises from the dead. There are many people who died that are alive today because of medical intervention. Unbelievers can come up with many excuses not to believe them. How sad.

Pinkrose - Amen to everything you wrote!

kcwriter- I have had similar thoughts before if this was the right diet for me. I have thought about it many times and I finally got an answer.We are not commanded to eat or not to eat anything in the New Testament. God just leaves it to our own choosing. The only exception that I have found is Acts 15:19-20. "And so my judgement is that we should stop troubling the Gentiles who turn to God except that we should write them and tell them to abstain from eating meat that has been sacrificed to idols, sexual immorality and from consuming blood or eating the meat of a strangled animal" (NLT)

Donna -

kristykay - I've thought about that too. I've even heard that even our teeth are designed to eat a plant based diet.

I hope everyone has a wonderful day

Blessings,
Cathy

Here is link to an article about how others have recognized their need to change their diets:

http://www.christianpost.com/article/20 ... index.html

You can see my comments and add yours below the story.

Jamie's web site does not measure up to the low fat vegan standards here.

Are you an agent of change? In other words, do you show others how to honor God with your body?

1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. (Romans 12.1-2, KJV)

May we let Him transform us!

Jan,
I am not sure which post we found each other. But the book came and I am so greatful. Please let me know if this thank you comes through to you.

Good morning all, My 6 year old had a fever of 103 last night so I am headed to Kaiser this morning for a look at his ears. Please have him in your prayers for by 'my stripes they are healed.'

The 'man' got a bit miffed this morning when I put the 'fake soy meat in his lunch.' He grabbed a leftover piece of steak fromlast night and stuck it in. I told him I was sorry and that I just learned that the stuff was not to be eaten on this program. I don't want to waste it so I was gonna eat it. Boy how I wish I hadn't bought it. Be blessed, kc p.s. I love that you all post scriptures. they bless me and it really helps me that I am doing this with believers in Jesus. Just another facet of my life with 'Him' in it.

About the time I began seriously McDougalling, I read a book I believe was titled "vegarianism for dummies." Well, the author of that book said that some vegetarian's eat fish and some do not. Her husband ate fish, and she didn't, so she kept it in a separate part of the refrigerator.
I do have a good friend I go out to eat with every Tuesday. Vicki is a low carb person. About the only thing she says about eating and weight loss is that "what works for one person doesn't work for someone else." Unfortunately, she has been doing her version of low carb for quite some time, and can't lose much. I have tried to tell her that most carbohydrates are "processed" foods which does make a difference. But so far no soap. Oh, well.
Anyway we have been going to a local cafe where it is pretty easy to eat McDougall. The Blue Moon Cafe makes their own veggie burgers from scratch!! And are they good. Granted, I suppose they do have a little oil in them, or are fried in it, but at least it's better than eating SAD. I had their burger last week, and noticed the onions and kidney beans in it. Put on a whole wheat bun, with green leaf lettuce, tomato and onion and what a meal!
This same cafe also does a pretty good salad with green leaf lettuce, and lots of veggie's. With a low fat dressing, you are eating good. Nice to know we have a good choice for eating locally.

By the way on Saturday my hubby and I were in Plattsburgh, an hour away. We tried the new Panera Bread place. Not bad, and they do serve a low fat black bean soup, and a Mediterrian sandwich, loaded with veggie's and a salad. We ate pretty well, considering we felt it was "fast food." We'd never been to a Panera Bread place, so we wanted to try.

We had a continental breakfast for Psalm Sunday at church this week. It sure is tough when all those donuts, coffee cake, etc is out. The Pastor did do a huge fruit bowl, but that was about all that was healthy. At least we don't have to deal with that every Sunday thank goodness.

By the way if anyone ever reads The Makers Diet by Jordon Rubin, he writes and says our "teeth" are made for eating meat! Sorry, but I can't agree with him anymore. But I did meet him at a trade show I went to some years ago, and yes, he is the picture of health. If you ever read his book, and look at his before and after pictures, and see him now, you will know what I am talking about. When he got sick with chron's disease he wasted away to nothing. His doctor's said it was the worst case of chron's they had ever seen. Even though, I still can't agree with much of his book anymore.
Some of you might want to read it sometime, just to see what Rubin promotes. And he is very big on everything organic. At least I can give him credit for that.

Hi everybody. I'm back. I posted an update of how my weekend went on my journal, but I just wanted to check in to greet everyone this morning. It's nice to be back.

I wasn't sure when I left last week if this thread would still exist. On the old vegsource board it'd be gone and most of us banned for life. Thank Dr. McD for giving us a place to post even with all the negativity it seems to bring forth.

Blessings,
Jubilee

Good Morning and God Bless,

MY 6 year old is doing much better but still home. so I cant go to the Y. My knee is pretty bad and so I broke down after 3 weeks and made an appt. They called today to say he was out sick. Wondering, is that a God thing. I'm kinda way out there, but I have had many healings from the Lord including my knee last time may years ago. If I had done what I just read in mcdougall about not upping the intensity but more the duration, I wouldn't be in this fix.

Sooo, I'm asking all to pray for healing on my left knee and right leg. Thank you so much. I have you in my prayers. Katmatt, hope you continue in good health! be blessed, kc