Discussion Board

Oh yes Quinoa, that's is indeed some of the fun of it! I've had some excellent volunteer tomatoes sprout right in the compost heap. Potatoes as well.

2 years ago in February, I planted potatoes in a pretty empty compost bin. The ground was too wet to plant and this bin was loose. Then, I harvested the potatoes the end of June. Anything that was marble size I did not pull...just left it in the ground. I didn't use that compost bin the rest of the summer and this past summer, I discovered potatoes from 2 years ago were still growing in this bin. I could not believe it! They were huge! It is a wonder they didn't rot or something. Ha!

I have tomato plants come up in my compost each year. And, these tomatoes are healthier and grow off better than those I started from seed in pots. Some people plant their tomatoes in the ground outside in late Fall after a frost (winter-sowing). You have to make sure the ground is cold. Till ahead of time before the garden gets wet. Then, when it gets cold enough to kill annuals, sow your seeds. Come spring, these plants will come up just like the seeds in the compost bins do. And, they are healthier and grow off quicker this way. And, you do not have to worry about whether you are setting the plants out too early to get frosted on because that doesn't happen. So, in the Fall, prepare the soil, while it is dry and plant some seeds. Then, you don't have to worry about whether the soil is too wet or dry to plant in the spring.

We have a HUGE compost pile (30 foot around by 8 foot tall) this year besides 4 smaller (4 feet wide by 8 feet long and 4 foot tall. They all seam to be cooking off nicely.

We live on a 200 acre family farm. Lots of fallen trees and leaves that get mulched. We have a Troy Bilt chipper/shredder.

I mulch everything in the garden to keep weeds down and to keep the plants nice and wet. Rarely do we have to water anything. After a rain, (not before or everything will stay dry), I put down a thick layer (4 sections) of newspaper around the plants on top of the soil. Then, I top the newspaper with at least 6 inches of compost. No weeding or watering. I learned years ago that this was the way to grow a garden. I've been gardening this way for almost 40 years. Saves Wear and Tear on the body!

There is some wonderful information in this thread that I would like to be able to refer to later. Is there any possibility that you, Anna would be willing to condense this information to make a stickie in the gardening section that we would be able to reference. I am a chronic trier to do this composting thing but not so successful. I have read things in books, on line, watched my Amish neighbors with their instructions(much like Anna's thoughts on this) I am finding these directions something I might be able to accomplish...so thanks for sharing your instructions....to me their is nothing more exciting than seeing nature recycle itself and create an amazing product. My Amish friend with amazing flower beds is free of weeds and has an abundant amount of incredibly rich soil to grow in. Thanks again

Hi, lydia--
Thanks for your comments and I'm so glad you find this discussion useful. I hope you will have some success at composting! I am not quite sure how I would re-write this into a better format, but I could try to do this at some later point (I am overwhelmed with "work" work and other things at the moment). Feel free to remind me...

There has been so much written about composting, perhaps I should look through what's out there and see which ones I can recommend. A bibliography?!

I learned to get my compost to succeed through 3 things: reading about it, trying/experimenting with various methods, and talking with people about their experiences. I think these three things, woven together, are essential for everybody, because it's an "organic" process that can't really be boiled down to simple rules. There has to be some understanding and comprehension of the process, some awareness of differences in environment, as well as tactics and ideas on procedure. Sort of like cooking--good recipes don't automatically lead to good food if the person is totally unfamiliar with cooking! There's a knack to it you have to "get." Most people in the 21st century are distant from the soil and we don't have this "knack" for garden things, we have to re-learn what our ancestors were so good at.

I do like the give and take of a forum thread, I think it gives each person a chance to ask questions or make observations from their own point of view. That leads to better understanding for everybody.
--Anna

p.s. That's great that you have Amish neighbors to learn from. Do you have any observations about what they do, ideas on how they get it to work? I'm thinking they may have horse manure available, that heats up a compost pile quickly! Would love to hear more.

Chrmann--


I'm a big, big fan of mulching, like you! Although I live in a very different climate than you, I have success with very thick mulch, year-round, on the soil. I am primarily using hay (a method described by Ruth Stout years ago). The hay forms a thick insulating layer that keeps the soil from drying out, keeps the worms happy and the soil loose. I am no longer digging or tilling the soil! When it's time to plant, you just push the hay aside a little bit and put in the seeds. It is very little work! Throughout the summer I do fuss at things, you have to keep adding hay to any bare spots, etc. but it is light, easy work and pleasant. Very little weeding. Perhaps I'll write about this more later this summer. I do use newspapers a lot, in my pathways and under trees and shrubs, to suppress weeds.

Your compost sounds like a living, breathing organism! That is inspiring.

I have read about "winter sowing" and would like to try it. If I can get organized this spring, maybe I'll try it this year... There's a whole website about this...http://www.wintersown.org/ Probably the technique varies depending on your climate but it sounds like some form of this would work almost anywhere.

AnnaS:

I have the book by Ruth Stout. I do not use hay because seeds from the hay will sprout (a problem!). That happened the first year I tried it. So, I use compost. I probably use 10 dump truck loads of mulch a year. And, in order to keep weeds from coming up out of the ground, I use newspapers under my mulch /compost. We have quite a few perrenial type weeds that come up thru "thick" mulch and they are a nuisance. When I use the newspapers to suspress these weeds, everything is o.k. but these weeds will still come back the next year. And, that is aggravating!

I think this whole thread is very valuable as so many have contributed. I've enjoyed it so much and learned so much. I'd put the whole thread as a sticky.

The plastic compost container I linked to, does have openings (4 I believe) on all four sides. Plus the 'doors' that slide up. It's not solid on the bottom. Right now it's falling apart so it's getting air now LOL. I need to get it to stay together.

I have a bale of either hay or straw that was used for fall decorations. I was going to put that in. It's been sitting all winter, wouldn't any seeds have already gone?

Faith--most likely what you have there is straw, which is commonly used for decorations. There won't be many seeds in it, and the seedheads that are there are usually wheat seeds. If these sprout in your compost it is easy to turn it over and re-compost the sprouts back in. Some could survive the composting process and sprout in your garden, but that's not really a problem--wheat isn't a virulent pest, lol!

My husband grew up in Philadelphia and he always thought hay and straw were the same thing; now he still gets them confused. BIG difference between them, though!

STRAW is basically a waste product, so it's usually fairly cheap. It is the dead stalks of a grain crop, cut after the grain heads dried and were harvested. Most likely it doesn't have seeds in it except for some from the grain (usually wheat). For animals, straw is used for bedding as it is absorbant. Straw is a great mulch as it is very insulating. In drier climates, straw bales can be used in building construction (with stucco over them). Nutritionally, it is mostly just cellulose. Dead, dry, carbon, like leaves. In the diet of your compost bin, straw can contribute to the large amount of "brown" matter you need as food for your microbes.

HAY is basically a food product, so it's usually more expensive than straw. It is the whole plant (of alfalfa, grasses, and likely a mix of these) which was cut live at its peak and left to dry before bundling. It's dehydrated food just like the zucchini or basil you might dehydrate for storage. If you look at a bale of hay, it often has a greenish tinge, compared to the yellow/brown color of straw. That's because hay IS green, even though dry to the touch, it's a nitrogen source. It's just like your grass clippings from your lawn--you can add it to your compost and it will contribute nutrients as "green" matter but needs a lot of "brown" matter to cook. For animals, hay is nutritious feed and for that reason after a hard winter with a lot of snow cover, farmers will have bought up a lot of the hay and the price goes up. You wouldn't use hay as animal bedding, obviously, as it will get stinky when wet, just like your kitchen scraps or grass clippings do.

Re: weed seeds
Wheat is an annual crop, usually planted in a plowed field, possibly managed with herbicides although often with wheat this is not necessary, as it is planted so densely, and fall planting is common which means the crop is well established before the weeds can sprout. Because of that, straw comes from a relatively 'clean' field with few vicious weeds in it.
Hay, on the other hand, is grown year after year on the same, unplowed ground, as a perennial crop. Like a pasture. Because of that, it is easy for pernicious weeds to get established. So your bale of hay might have many different weed seeds in it. A good hay farmer will be very careful about watching for weeds, especially any which might be harmful for livestock to eat. But it is still an issue for people.

The hay I use for mulch is pretty good as far as weeds go; I've been buying from the same farmer for years. Also on my garden beds I keep adding more layers constantly so weeds that do sprout just die again under the thick mulch. I never have any bare ground so they don't get a chance. The reason I choose hay over straw is A) its nutritional content is great for my soil and B) straw tends to blow away in the high winds we get here. The alfalfa in the hay is 'clingy' and sticks to itself and seldom blows.
Ruth Stout used hay but she also wrote over and over in her books that almost anything will work as mulch--the idea is to protect the soil and let the worms farm it for you!
--A.

I figured it was straw, because it was cheap. I grew up around horses so that helps. I was thinking of using it as brown matter since I seem to lack that. LOL I've been having dreams of stealing my neighbors leaves this coming fall for compost. I wonder if it's a crime.

No, I think it's called doing them a favor! We are about 5 miles from a small town where people rake up their leaves and have to pay to get them hauled away, or if they go to the dump themselves they still have to pay! It's just a few dollars but people resent this. (The leaves are composted at the dump.)

Every fall we drive in there with our trailer attached and look around in the alleys for bags of leaves. I always ring the doorbell and ask, just in case they were meaning to use them, but usually people are DELIGHTED. I'm saving them money, you see. One time we stopped in front of a home where the whole family was out raking leaves--we took 8 bags of their leaves and the woman ran up and gave me a hug! (I didn't understand the high level of gratitude but, oh well!)
Another fun one was a Hispanic family who didn't understand what we wanted at first but when they realized we wanted to take the leaves they ran to help load our trailer. I told the man, "See you next year!" He thought for a minute to figure out what I'd said, and then laughed, "Okay!"

Putting a sticky on this thread would keep it at the top, easily accessible, wouldn't it? That's an excellent idea!

I'll send a request to the moderator about making us a sticky!

Anna
You are nice to ask. In my area if it's out at the curb and not a vehicle then it's free for the taking. Our leaf pickup is free, or should I say built into our taxes. So I should be fine.

I'm determined to get this compost cooking this summer.

Now this is one of the best - no, it IS the best thread I've ever read on composting.

Being a big composter myself, I savored every word - we live on 260 acres so I'm never at a loss for something to add to the compost pile . .which is at the edge of our woods. Hubby put some scrap metal down on the ground (to prevent tree roots from growing into the compost) and I pile everything there - and I water and turn it regularly.

But one of my biggest surprises was one year I just put my leaves in black leaf bags and set them behind the barn. By spring I had the most beautiful compost I've ever seen! Really surprised me!

ImaTucker--


Did you leave the bags open so moisture could get in? When I stockpile bags of leaves that are tightly closed they stay crispy, dry and whole all winter! Which is what I want, because I'm saving them to add to the compost over time. But, if a bag is broken or has holes in it it will digest beautifully, just as you describe. Technically, this is called "Leaf mould," because the leaves are digested by molds, not by the aerobic bacteria that digest compost. (see Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leaf_mold)

Leaf mould is FABULOUS for potting soil and plant starting, in fact that was what the old-timers always used (pre-vermiculite and Jiffy-Mix, lol). However it does not have the nutrients in it that compost does. When you start seeds, you generally don't want them exposed to a lot of strong nutrients, so that's why it works well for this. It adds a lot of good texture to soil so it's great to add to a garden bed, if you have enough. Or add it to a potting mix for fluffiness.

I have a 4'x4' wire bin that I set aside purely for leaves. Every fall I add more and just let them sit there--the bottom layers are very rich and crumbly. This is my "emergency supply" of potting soil material! If I happen to run out of other materials I will use that. Eventually there will be enough of it there that I'll go ahead and start using it, but for now that's my backup storage.

Meanwhile I use the regular compost (made from both green & brown matter) as food for my plants, as it has a lot more nutrients in it.