Plant based diet vs starch based diet

dianeb1944 · **Joined:** Thu Feb 01, 2007 6:51 pm **Posts:** 131

What you are saying makes sense re whole wheat but I took this right off of the McDougall Free Program site under
Starch Staples." Wasn't this written by Dr. McDougall? Maybe he could clarify but whole wheat pasta is listed as is artichoke pasta, spinach pasta and rice pasta with no wheat........Please clarify Diane

JeffN · **Joined:** Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:56 am **Posts:** 5071

dianeb1944 wrote:

What you are saying makes sense re whole wheat but I took this right off of the McDougall Free Program site under
Starch Staples." Wasn't this written by Dr. McDougall? Maybe he could clarify but whole wheat pasta is listed as is artichoke pasta, spinach pasta and rice pasta with no wheat........Please clarify Diane

I am not sure of the question you are asking.

My comments above include comments in regard to processed grains. They are highly processed and refined but in regard to calorie density, they are almost as low as unrefined unprocessed grains.

Perhaps you could clarify your question for me.

Thanks

In Health
Jeff

dianeb1944 · **Joined:** Thu Feb 01, 2007 6:51 pm **Posts:** 131

Sorry Jeff. I missed the content of your reply. You are not saying anything different than Dr. McD said on the website. I misunderstood what you were trying to say. Got it straight now. :-D

JeffN · **Joined:** Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:56 am **Posts:** 5071

dianeb1944 wrote:

Sorry Jeff. I missed the content of your reply. You are not saying anything different than Dr. McD said on the website. I misunderstood what you were trying to say. Got it straight now. :-D

Great!!

Hope all is going well with your continued adventure!

In Health
Jeff

Clary · **Posted:** Fri Dec 17, 2010 7:59 am

A plant-based diet is not necessarily a starch-based diet.

A person could be eating foods 100% from plant sources without eating starches. Dr. McDougall defines his "diet" as "A starch-centered diet with the addition of fruits and vegetables, with no added oils; and with moderate exercise."

If one chooses to follow Dr. McDougall's plan, daily meals are centered around starches.

flroots · **Joined:** Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:48 am **Posts:** 130

landog wrote:

dianeb1944 wrote:

Hi Jeff,
Can you explain to me, specifically, where their emphasis is different, if it is, specifically which foods are considered plant based and which are considered starch based. I am at a loss to see the diff. Thanks, Diane

It seems to me that the Esselstyn book is mostly the story of his successful heart disease reversal study, along with presenting a diet that will prevent heart disease.

The diet section does list what to eat - like vegetables, legumes, whole grains and fruit. Of course, what to avoid (and why). Ann Esslestyn adds advice and many recipes. For me, it was a great motivator that started me down this path. I think that Esselstyn's "plant-based. oil-free, whole grain diet with leafy vegetables" diet isn't far removed from the McDougalls'.

From the Esselstyn's we only have the one book (so far). Dr. McDougall has many books, DVDs, newsletters and the rest of these online resources. I think that allows the McDougall to go into much greater detail on what works, with explanations of the hows and whys.

My take on this is that they are coaching from the same playbook.

Be well,
-dog

That pretty much summarizes our experience. We were first motivated by the CNN documentary featuring former president Clinton:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-Unn7LjFkI
and then Dr Esselstyn's book. After 3 weeks on Dr E's diet, we learned about Dr McDougall and ordered his Healthy Heart book. We switched over primarily due to the clear and easy to understand manner in which information is presented in addition to all the support offered by this forum. As mentioned elsewhere, the diets are almost the same, but with different emphasis.

I would like something clarified with respect to a starch-based diet (as recommended by Dr McDougall) vs a plant-based, whole food diet (as recommended by Dr Esselstyn). What are some of the negatives of the latter diet (ie, without the emphasis on starches as the center of each meal)?
Pete

JeffN · **Joined:** Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:56 am **Posts:** 5071

flroots wrote:

I would like something clarified with respect to a starch-based diet (as recommended by Dr McDougall) vs a plant-based, whole food diet (as recommended by Dr Esselstyn). What are some of the negatives of the latter diet (ie, without the emphasis on starches as the center of each meal)?
Pete

Nothing.

They are virtually the same programs with slightly different emphasis using different terminology to describe the same thing.

I work closely with both of then and teach the nutrition lectures at both of the Dr.'s immersion programs. As Essy only allows for fruits, veggies, starchy veggies, whole grains & legumes, if you analyze a weeks worth of menus, regardless of what you call it, the majority of the calories will come from starchy veggies, whole grains & legumes, which are what Dr McD calls, "starches."

The only main difference is Essy doesn't recommend the consumption of any nuts & seeds for his heart patients while Dr McD allows for a small amount for those who want them.

In health
Jeff

pinkrose · **Posted:** Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:25 am

JeffN wrote:

The only main difference is Essy recommends the consumption of any nuts & seeds for his heart patients and Dr McD allows for a small amount for those who want them.

In health
Jeff

Jeff, would you please clarify that sentence? :-D

JeffN · **Joined:** Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:56 am **Posts:** 5071

I edited that paragraph of my above post and it should make sense to you now.

Thanks
Jeff

flroots · **Joined:** Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:48 am **Posts:** 130

JeffN wrote:

flroots wrote:

I would like something clarified with respect to a starch-based diet (as recommended by Dr McDougall) vs a plant-based, whole food diet (as recommended by Dr Esselstyn). What are some of the negatives of the latter diet (ie, without the emphasis on starches as the center of each meal)?
Pete

Nothing.

They are virtually the same programs with slightly different emphasis using different terminology to describe the same thing.

I work closely with both of then and teach the nutrition lectures at both of the Dr.'s immersion programs. As Essy only allows for fruits, veggies, starchy veggies, whole grains & legumes, if you analyze a weeks worth of menus, regardless of what you call it, the majority of the calories will come from starchy veggies, whole grains & legumes, which are what Dr McD calls, "starches."

The only main difference is Essy doesn't recommend the consumption of any nuts & seeds for his heart patients while Dr McD allows for a small amount for those who want them.

In health
Jeff

Thanks. Perhaps I didn't phrase my question properly. What are the effects of eating foods allowed on both diets, but with less starch overall (ie, not the center of each meal)?
Pete

JeffN · **Joined:** Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:56 am **Posts:** 5071

flroots wrote:

Thanks. Perhaps I didn't phrase my question properly

Thanks

Perhaps I didn't phrase my answer properly.

flroots wrote:

What are the effects of eating foods allowed on both diets, but with less starch overall (ie, not the center of each meal)?
Pete

There is no difference as they are both virtually the identical diet as, if you do the calculations, the center of every Essy meal is starch (or sometimes referred to as unrefined, unprocessed complex carbohydrate), and hence, there would be no real measurable difference in the effect.

You may find this discussion valuable as you will see, they are both starch (or sometimes referred to as unrefined, unprocessed complex carbohydrate) based diets.

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=7961

In Health
Jeff

serenity · **Posted:** Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:04 am

flroots wrote:

[What are the effects of eating foods allowed on both diets, but with less starch overall (ie, not the center of each meal)?
Pete

Pete,
Think of it this way, if starch is not the center of the meal, then what is? Something has to provide calories, and it's not going to be green veggies. The only plans I've seen that are not starch based are nut based. Jeff has written extensively about that too.

So, what's the effect of reducing starch? You will be hungry. Dr. McD makes that point often.

pinkrose · **Posted:** Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:54 pm

JeffN wrote:

The only main difference is Essy doesn't recommend the consumption of any nuts & seeds for his heart patients while Dr McD allows for a small amount for those who want them.

In health
Jeff

Does Essy advise that his heart patients omit all seeds--including flax seeds? :?:

giddyupgin · **Posted:** Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:53 pm

What a wonderful thread of information......I scored at the goodwill last week finding The McDougall Program..12 days to Dynamic Health.....just started a Forks over Knives Meetup and love giving out the right information to those wanting to take ownership of their Health in their own hands.....

flroots · **Joined:** Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:48 am **Posts:** 130

serenity wrote:

flroots wrote:

[What are the effects of eating foods allowed on both diets, but with less starch overall (ie, not the center of each meal)?
Pete

Pete,
Think of it this way, if starch is not the center of the meal, then what is? Something has to provide calories, and it's not going to be green veggies. The only plans I've seen that are not starch based are nut based. Jeff has written extensively about that too.

So, what's the effect of reducing starch? You will be hungry. Dr. McD makes that point often.

Thanks. That's kind of what I was thinking. I also reviewed Dr McDougall's starch solution video in which he says one would have to eat a few bushels of leafy greens to satisfy oneself. This begs the question as to what would be wrong with, say, a potato only diet? He mentions on the video that a potato is a complete food with all the necessary nutrients. Other than it becoming boring, are there other problems? I'm just trying to better understand why he says starch-based with the addition of fresh or frozen fruits and vegetables (ie, what is the role of the fruits and vegetables?).
Pete

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