High Triglycerides

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High Triglycerides

Postby sdbenson45 » Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:03 pm

Jeff:

I have a narrow question for you: I love bean burritos and pizzas - how can I still eat these on Ornish's heart disease reversal diet without sending my triglycerides through the roof?

When I got out of the Army in Feb of 07, my total chol. was 273, LDL 211. Triglycerides and everything else was within normal limits. In late Nov of 07, I went on Dr. Ornish's reversal diet. In late Jun of 08, I got my levels checked again just to see where I was. Total chol. had dropped to 202, but triglycerides spiked way up to 526. LDL could not be measured because of the high triglycerides. I think I know what the problem is after having read some of your earlier discussions about this subject. I have been cutting out all of the fat and saturated fat from my diet, but I have been eating way too many processed carbs such as canned beans, fat-free fudge bars, supermarket bread, pre-made pizza crusts, and supermarket tortias.

Since giving up steaks, fried chicken, and Taco Bell, my favorite foods over the past 7 months have been pizzas with no cheese (either just crust an marina sauce, or crust and sauce with veggie toppings). I also love bean burritos and mexican rice and use that to get much of my protein since abandoning meat products.

I know now that I need to alter my carb intake to complex carbs and elliminate the processed carbs to get the triglycerides down, but I would really love to find a way to still eat burritos and pizzas. I don't know much about "intact whole grains." Any suggestions you could give me on my :) pizza crust and tortia crisis would be greatly appreciated! Thanks.
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Postby momof4 » Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:37 pm

I'm not Jeff, but you can try to figure out what exactly it is that you like about these foods. For example, I was extremely surprised to find that I really like tacos and pizza without cheese--before trying them without it, I thought it was the cheese that made them taste so good.

Sometimes for tacos and burritos, I make it a taco salad or burrito salad, and leave off the flour or corn shell. It's actually quite good in a bowl, especially if I make the burrito with rice, black beans w/cumin, and vegies (it's similar to those large burritos that are being sold everywhere now). For pizza, maybe you could try mixing the pizza sauce and vegie toppings in a bowl over rice, or even by themself.

From one veteran to another, happy 4th of July!
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Let's talk Pizza!!!!

Postby f1jim » Fri Jul 04, 2008 11:06 pm

There are a number of healthy options for pizza crusts. Locally, a number of markets here carry the Vicolo brand. They make many crusts that fit our diet program. A couple of corn meal crusts and a couple of spelt crusts. Organic and non-organic options for both are available. We take one of these crusts, lather with a healthy, home made pizza sauce, grilled veggies, sometimes seitan, capers, onions, garlic, etc!!! We love it and get a bit more creative with each pizza pie we make.
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Dr. McDougall's Program

Postby Clary » Sat Jul 05, 2008 7:40 am

sdbenson45 wrote:Jeff:

how can I still eat these on Ornish's heart disease reversal diet without sending my triglycerides through the roof?

I have been cutting out all of the fat and saturated fat from my diet, but I have been eating way too many processed carbs such as canned beans, fat-free fudge bars, supermarket bread, pre-made pizza crusts, and supermarket tortias.

I also love bean burritos and mexican rice and use that to get much of my protein since abandoning meat products.

I know now that I need to alter my carb intake to complex carbs and elliminate the processed carbs to get the triglycerides down,

but I would really love to find a way to still eat burritos and pizzas. I don't know much about "intact whole grains."

Any suggestions you could give me on my :) pizza crust and tortia crisis would be greatly appreciated! Thanks.


I am not Jeff, but will add my comments.

I see from your post that you became a "visible" member of Dr. McDougall's Discussion Board only yesterday.

Welcome to the board.:nod:

I cannot comment on Dr. Ornish's program because I haven't yet read his books nor studied his program.

You speak of your dietary "crisis". Those happen. :eek: Have you considered, additionally, if you wish to benefit from the full resources here on Dr. McDougall's Website --beyond crisis events (if you have not yet done so), taking the time to go to Dr. McDougall's home page and reading his "Free Program" http://drmcdougall.com/free.html
and researching his "Hot Topics"--including the Star McDougaller stories connected with specific topics, and/or doing other searches on the home page for triglycerides, and many of the issues you mentioned, etc. There is a wealth of information and answers for you there that can educate, encourage and motivate you, such as:
http://www.drmcdougall.com/med_hot_cholesterol.html

While on the FREE PROGRAM page, you can check out these links:

Before You Begin
Introduction
*Diet, not genes, controls destiny
*A revelation: Your health is not determined by heredity
*Fat and cholesterol: Primary poisons
*Plant foods provide the nutritional building blocks to optimum health
*Prepare for Health
*Steps to Recovery
*Starch staples
*Fruits and vegetables
*Foods not allowed
*Achieve 100% health with exercise
*Track your progress


No one who really wants to learn how to apply Dr. McDougall's program (including approved foods and beverages, and "McDougalling" recipes), and benefit from it, needs be left ignorant about any part of it--and ALL for FREE! --and what you can't search out and find on your own, you can come here and ask, and Jeff or someone of us McDougaller's can offer you an answer or lead you to Dr. McDougall's take on your question.

And, YES!, as you know, we have Jeff Novick here with a regular forum on Dr. McDouall's Discussion Board. Jeff is a supreme dietician--and so much more--( a supreme human being! :thumbsup: ) who is beyond generous with his time and his knowledge, and punches both with great but gentle humor! What a gift he is to us McDougallers!

If you are choosing to follow a different program than Dr. McDougall's, it seems the most excellent resource about that program would be directly from that program or its providers or creators, or some type of support network for that specific program. On the other hand, you might want to consider fully learning about Dr. McDougall's program, reading Dr. McDougall's books or orderding DVDs from his website, if you think his starch-based, no added oils, plant food diet and Lifestyle Medicine may be the better (or additional) choice for you and your health conditions at this time.

His book, The McDougall Program For A Healthy Heart contains useful information that applies to your questions, including instructions on how to follow his full dietary and lifestyle program, including recipes. I see at least 35 pages mentioned in the index under "Triglycerides".

Dr. McDougall's book, The McDougall Program 12 Days to Dynamic Health can be your "Bachelor's Degree" in McDougalling :), including teaching you how to use his wife, Mary's, recipes --including those for both Burritos and Pizza!, and the "approved" ingredients and prepared foods for their making. Pizza and burrito recipes are in several of their books, including The New McDougall Cookbook, and The McDougall Quick and Easy Cookbook.

I can usually find most of his books for 75 cents (plus shipping) at half.com. I continue to order them there from time to time to share with family and friends. There are about 35 listings there this morning, as I type this post:
http://search.half.ebay.com/john-mcdoug ... tZ88QQsoZ1

Educating yourself can help to motivate you, empower you, and can be the foundation of your successful program to restore your health and appearance (as Dr. McDougall says)! --and can move you out of a "crisis" mode into a steady moving forward of visible accomplishments and results! I see from your post that a better understanding about "where do I get my protein" and about "complex carbohydrates" and about "whole grains" and about "apporved foods and brands", etc. will be very helpful to you, and I know of no better place at this time for you to begin a lifetime of learning about all of those AND more--resulting in better and better health, than right here on this website. --but there is some effort on your part required to obtain and learn and apply new information, and to enjoy the incredible results.

It can be a lot of fun learning this lifestyle, mastering the recipes, coming to the board for clarification and support--and eventually to be able yourself to help others who are now where you once were.

For example, you might go to the "Food & Recipes" forum on this board and post a message there asking for McDougaller's Favorite Burrito and Pizza recipes, and letting the Board Members know that you need "details"; that you are brand new to cooking this way and you need brand names, approved ingredients, resources, directions, cooking times, etc.

You'll find this is one of the most generous and giving groups of people you will find anywhere, when the McDougaller's here are responding to those who are sincere seekers of the McDougall Program.

My last suggestion (s) for now is if you decide the full McDougall Program will benefit you, to come here to this website often, read and pay attention, and do your homework, and learn for yourself from the resources here what are approved foods and beverages on this program and which are not, and seek out answers to your specific questions, and to post questions here on the Discussion Board; but to also use discernment when possible, watching for those who are responding in the context of the McDougall program, and who are not promoting another program or personal agenda. Dr. McDougall is extremely generous with what he allows to be posted on this board, and there is little "monitor" involvement. If you want "McDougall" answers from "McDougallers" here on the "McDougall" board, you are at the right place! If you decide to stay and hang out with us, it doesn't take very long to get an idea of who is "talking McDougall".

And of course, there is always the option, as you have wisely done, to "Ask Jeff".

I look forward to the day when you come to the board with your first very own original McDougall-approved burrito recipe :!: , and share it with us, while at the same time posting your new PERFECT triglyceride numbers!! :-D

Wishing you the very best, and hope you will choose to "Keep Coming Back"!
"LIFE always begins again." --Edmond Bordeaux Székely
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THANKS!

Postby sdbenson45 » Sat Jul 05, 2008 8:30 am

Thanks, folks!

I found your responses VERY helpful! :P

As I am new these message board discussions/heart health web sites, I was not aware that there were other heart disease reversal diets out there besides Dean Ornish's program. I will definately check these out, although at first blush they sound similar - no animal products, no dairy, and no oils, nuts or avacados.

I think what I need to learn is what foods I can buy that really conform to these diets without the bad stuff sneaking in. I really appreciated the tip on pizza crusts. Thanks again. I'll be looking for these brands in the future.
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Long (sorry)

Postby Steve » Sat Jul 05, 2008 8:53 am

Hi Stephen,

I have a sensitivity to triglycerides. About fourteen years ago, when I was about 38 or 39 years old my total cholesterol was 277. I was overweight, had a "fatty" liver and felt terrible. If understood from you post correctly you recently retired from the service you may be a little older and healthier then I was back then. But my story may still be of interest.
Within three months of following the McDougall Program 12 days to Dynamic Health, my cholesterol went to 177 and at six months it went to under 150 and has stayed there all this time except one reading about 5 to 6 years ago when it went into the 180s. Over the years I compromised the McDougall diet by preferring non-whole wheat bread and pasta, and then fell into the whole snackwells and Entemann "fat free" trap. (I could have used some advice from Jeff Novick about the marketing of the so called fat free stuff). So I was eating my fat free snackwells and lots of angel hair (not whole wheat) spaghetti. Also in the maximum weight loss book Dr. McDougall suggested no more than 2 fruits a day. Well I found truly giant apples and giant oranges so I was able to kid myself that I was following a program when I really was not. To make it worse I somehow thought that no fat cheese and little bits of meet could not hurt. Well my weight had gone up and my triglycerides were in the 500's like yours. My Doc told me that the triglycerides + my age (late 40's) my waist measurement, age and family history all pointed towards developing diabetes.
I did the triglyceride index search in the Healthy Heart book, as suggested by Clary (available as an ebook on this website for 10 bucks by the way). The book recommends exercise. It also points towards sugars and especially fructose or the sugars in fruit as being the culprit for those sensitive. You are suspicious of your love of pizza crust and bread, but how much fruit are you eating? I would sit down and eat several oranges or apples at a time when I was in the 500 triglyceride zone.
I went to an aggressive Maximum Weight loss diet, exercised about 45 minutes to an hour daily, and avoided sweet fruit. I dropped my excess weight rapidly, in about 6 months. My triglycerides and total cholesterol went under 150. My doctor was amazed and said he did not think I could have done the triglyceride thing without medicine which he talked me into trying for a short time.
Well I am now almost 53 years old, I have been eating more fruit and exercising less then when I was struggling with triglycerides over 5 years ago. My cholesterol stays well under 150 but I noticed an increase in triglycerides. My old Doc is retired and my new Doc was not worried about the triglycerides, but I know better. So I know what has to be done.
Anyway, I think my health involves being rather strict low fat vegan, avoiding fresh fruit and exercising. Or in other words a somewhat restricted McDougall program. I like Ornish's book, but the animal products he allows are too tempting for me. I prefer McDougall over Ornish, Esselstyn, Barnard, and Furhman. They all are on the same team, but I prefer McDougall because John and Mary understand what we are going through and have laid down simple rules, great food, and easy to deal with recipes. Works for me.
Take Clary's advice and read the healthy heart book about triglycerides. If you really want an eye opener read the latest newsletter article that Dr. McDougall discusses what happened to Tim Russert.
Best of luck.

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Postby chrisv » Sat Jul 05, 2008 9:26 am

Canned beans are considered a whole food, not processed. You can get low sodium versions. :)
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Postby HealthFreak » Sat Jul 05, 2008 11:13 am

I read in Men's Health that Omega 3 fatty acids reduce triglycerides, just wondering if that is true. My wife and I take DHA Algae pills for Omega 3s as well as ground flax seed. She just had her level checked and her triglycerides were in the 60s. I'll get mine checked in a few weeks. We both started a vegan diet about a year ago. She had low to normal triglyceride levels before the vegan diet, but they dropped almost 40% on this diet. I'm wondering if the DHA and flax had a big influence on that.
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Postby Mrs. Doodlepunk » Sat Jul 05, 2008 1:09 pm

Hey, wouldn't making your own pizza crusts with all whole wheat flour be OK? Bread dough is about the easiest thing to make, just flour, salt, yeast and water and you can leave out the salt if you want, or use less.

If you have a food processor it is very fast. Here is our pizza crust recipe:

2 1/2 cups whole wheat flour
2 teaspoons salt
1 cup warm water
1 tablespoon yeast dissolved in the water

Put flour and salt in processor bowl with blade. With motor running, pour in the water with yeast through the feed tube and process just until it all clumps together. Check the dough and add more flour if necessary.

I don't even let this rise, just pat or stretch it out into a crust and put it on parchment paper on the peel, put the toppings on and slide it onto the hot stone. 450 degrees for 18 minutes.

Baking stones are fairly inexpensive, mine lives on the bottom rack and I almost never bake bread in a pan any more.
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Postby Rita » Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:58 pm

If you want to buy pizza crusts, I hear the whole wheat ones Dr. McD recommends are great and 'legal'. They're called Kabuli (I think) and if you go to 'approved packaged list" on the main web page, you can find out where to order them. One of these days I'm going to do the same!
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Re: High Triglycerides

Postby JeffN » Sun Jul 13, 2008 4:17 pm

sdbenson45 wrote:Jeff:

I have a narrow question for you: I love bean burritos and pizzas - how can I still eat these on Ornish's heart disease reversal diet without sending my triglycerides through the roof?

Since giving up steaks, fried chicken, and Taco Bell, my favorite foods over the past 7 months have been pizzas with no cheese (either just crust an marina sauce, or crust and sauce with veggie toppings). I also love bean burritos and mexican rice and use that to get much of my protein since abandoning meat products.

I know now that I need to alter my carb intake to complex carbs and elliminate the processed carbs to get the triglycerides down, but I would really love to find a way to still eat burritos and pizzas. I don't know much about "intact whole grains." Any suggestions you could give me on my :) pizza crust and tortia crisis would be greatly appreciated! Thanks.


Hi

Regardless of the "name" of the diet you choose to follow, a healthy diet would still follow the same basic principles and guidelines. In addition, depending on your personal health/medical issues, similar adjustments would have to be made.

In regard to triglycerides, besides following the principles and guidelines of a healthy diet (as outlined here) and healthy lifestyle, including being active, maintaining a healthy weight, there are several factors known to directly relate to triglycerides. These incllude

- refined and processed sweeteners/sugars

- refined and processed grains/cereals (including whole grain)

- higher fat intakes

- alcohol

- excess weight, specifically around the "middle or midsection"

While you can find healthier whole grain versions of pizza crusts, and tortillas, and these may be "better" choices for you, you may find that you need to eliminate all the processed carbs till you get your numbers in line. Once that occurs, than you can experiment by adding them back in slowly and monitoring your numbers.

In Health
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